Register Login
Save up to 15% with Adrian Flux insurance!
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 23-07-2013   #76
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Devon and Umbria
Posts: 2,103
Thanks: 209
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
So what if they do, let them get on with it.
Thanks.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

babbo_umbro is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-07-2013   #77
aka Cardiff Ulysse
 
chr1s's Avatar
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 443
Thanks: 38
Trader Rating: 0
chr1s has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by Pilot Ralph View Post
What's a motorway? Don't have them in northern Scotland.
The test I did was more to see difference in mpg with eco and climate off or on. Perhaps someone that drives on "fast" roads could do something similar to compare.
I travelled down the M4 to London, and back, today, so I checked the mpg at 70mph with/without AC on.
(I didn't bother measuring with the ECO button on - that's just a button for when my wife or daughter is driving).

Driving for about 20 minutes at close to 70 mph, with the aircon on, fan speed 2 and windows closed, gave about 49 mpg.
Driving for about 30 minutes at close to 70 mph, with the aircon off, fan speed 2 and windows closed, gave about 55 mpg.
These mpg figures varied with uphill and downhill stretches, so they are not exactly comparable, but they indicate about a 10% effect on mpg at 70 mph, due to the aircon.

I have to say that I was surprised that the difference was so high. I have not seen any significant effect with the AC on the Multipla (although this is a 1.9 JTD).

The test was with a TA Lounge, not a 4x4, with 1600 miles on the clock.
__________________
FiatForumer. n. A person who has pictures of their Fiat in their wallet, where their money used to be.
Fiat. n. Something you swear by, or swear at.

Panda TwinAir Lounge, Nov 2012 . . . . . . Multipla replaced by BMW 218i SE AT Mar 2017
chr1s is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-07-2013   #78
Speed Reader of the Year!
 
Most Easterly Pandas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,314
Thanks: 1231
Trader Rating: 2
Most Easterly Pandas has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by chr1s View Post
I travelled down the M4 to London, and back, today, so I checked the mpg at 70mph with/without AC on.
(I didn't bother measuring with the ECO button on - that's just a button for when my wife or daughter is driving).

Driving for about 20 minutes at close to 70 mph, with the aircon on, fan speed 2 and windows closed, gave about 49 mpg.
Driving for about 30 minutes at close to 70 mph, with the aircon off, fan speed 2 and windows closed, gave about 55 mpg.
These mpg figures varied with uphill and downhill stretches, so they are not exactly comparable, but they indicate about a 10% effect on mpg at 70 mph, due to the aircon.

I have to say that I was surprised that the difference was so high. I have not seen any significant effect with the AC on the Multipla (although this is a 1.9 JTD).

The test was with a TA Lounge, not a 4x4, with 1600 miles on the clock.
They're also based upon the inaccurate trip readout also I take it and not a brim to brim test
__________________
Most Easterly Panda's - Panda'ing in East Anglia
Stockest of mk2 Panda Parts, PM for any parts requests
1993 Classic Panda Selecta, 1989 Panda 750L,
2015 Kia Soul EV, 2009 Panda Eleganza & 2005 Panda Climbing 4x4 (LPG)
Most Easterly Pandas is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #79
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sea
Posts: 2,517
Thanks: 277
Trader Rating: 0
deeyup has donated!
Push it Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

I think we can conclude that aircon on the TwinAir motor does use extra fuel.
Also, I think the more economical your driving style the more apparent it is.

Did anyone see top gear last Sunday. The one with wolverine?
They said the Vauxhaul Astra star track car was considerably slower with the aircon switched on.
__________________

deeyup is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #80
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 40
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

My Twin Air overall is 33mpg over 3800 miles, my 3ltr Diesel Audi Q5 does better than that, different driving etc but rather annoying all the same.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

RS4 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #81
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dorset
Posts: 8,431
Thanks: 886
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by deeyup View Post
I think we can conclude that aircon on the TwinAir motor does use extra fuel.
Also, I think the more economical your driving style the more apparent it is.
Running the aircon on any car will reduce economy. A/C takes power from the engine, and that power has to be paid for in fuel.

How much, and whether or not you are able to notice the difference, depends on many factors but is basically down to how much cooling is required, and how long it's switched on for.

Ecodrivers will certainly notice a bigger difference, partly because they are using less fuel to cover a given distance, and partly because it takes them a little longer to cover that distance, so it's a 'double-whammy' effect.

In the worst case scenario in my 1.2, running the A/C reduces economy by over 10mpg.
__________________


"Just 'cos you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"

jrkitching is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #82
aka Cardiff Ulysse
 
chr1s's Avatar
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 443
Thanks: 38
Trader Rating: 0
chr1s has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
They're also based upon the inaccurate trip readout also I take it and not a brim to brim test
That's true. But I was not going to stop and top up with petrol, at motorway prices, every 20 ~ 30 minutes ! (and this would still have been subject to error due to different 'brim' levels when only filling up with 2~3 litres, different fuel types, different driving speeds around service stations, etc.)

The trip computer measurements may not be highly accurate, but should be fairly consistent between the two tests. For certain, the error in the trip computer measurement between the two tests is much smaller than the indicated 10% effect due to the aircon being on or off.

I'm not trying to specify the exact effect of the aircon, but I am saying that the effect of using the aircon, on my car, at 70 mph on a fairly level road is to increase fuel consumption by about 10% (say 5% ~ 15%, taking error into account).
__________________
FiatForumer. n. A person who has pictures of their Fiat in their wallet, where their money used to be.
Fiat. n. Something you swear by, or swear at.

Panda TwinAir Lounge, Nov 2012 . . . . . . Multipla replaced by BMW 218i SE AT Mar 2017
chr1s is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #83
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dorset
Posts: 8,431
Thanks: 886
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by chr1s View Post
The trip computer measurements may not be highly accurate, but should be fairly consistent between the two tests. For certain, the error in the trip computer measurement between the two tests is much smaller than the indicated 10% effect due to the aircon being on or off.
Absoulutely. The trip computer isn't particularly accurate, but it is consistent between readings when used in this way.

Quote Originally Posted by chr1s View Post
I'm not trying to specify the exact effect of the aircon, but I am saying that the effect of using the aircon, on my car, at 70 mph on a fairly level road is to increase fuel consumption by about 10% (say 5% ~ 15%, taking error into account).
Yes, at 70mph, that's exactly the effect I'd expect to see.
__________________


"Just 'cos you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"

jrkitching is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #84
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 230
Thanks: 55
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Running the aircon on any car will reduce economy. A/C takes power from the engine, and that power has to be paid for in fuel.
This seems logical, assuming that engine efficiency is a fixed parameter.

However, both my previous cars (Renault Clio dCi 80 and Alfa Mito 1.3JTDM-2)
appeared to use no extra fuel with air-conditioning on, despite my checking
many times, over thousands of miles.

My theory is that the extra load improves the efficiency of the turbodiesel
at low power levels (I usually drive deliberately for maximum economy)

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to apply to the petrol Twinair, for which
I'm finding a fuel penalty of about 6% with the air-con. on

It's still a great engine though, and my Trekking's managing to do
better than 50MPG average wherever I go



Chris
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Moultoneer is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #85
Ulpian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: My flat mostly
Posts: 3,581
Thanks: 133
Trader Rating: 0
Ulpian has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

I think that the extra torque of Diesels is better able to carry the load of A/C compressors than relatively low torque petrols, which need to rev higher, particularly at idle, to prevent stalling.

I've driven small engine petrols - admittedly a long time ago - which were noticeably slower and more laboured, and thirsty, when the A/C cut in.

Having said that, the TA does not feel to be struggling with the compressor operating, but then this is probably masked by clever software and a less power hungry modern compressor.

I was a passenger last night in a VW Polo, the one with the small three cylinder engine, and I could barely notice the compressor cutting in, either by sound or by engine note, and the car became ice cold very quickly.
Likes Moultoneer liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Ulpian is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #86
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: isle of wight
Posts: 927
Thanks: 58
Trader Rating: 0
triumph7 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Quote Originally Posted by RS4 View Post
My Twin Air overall is 33mpg over 3800 miles, my 3ltr Diesel Audi Q5 does better than that, different driving etc but rather annoying all the same.
That sort of figure is pretty disappointing to say the least!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

triumph7 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-07-2013   #87
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 153
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
richardllew has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

My old Daewoo Leganza was more economical with the aircon on than off !
This was because I only used the aircon when the weather was really hot, and I tended to slow down to enjoy the cool breeze !

If you've got air con and its hot then use it, otherwise why bother paying for it in the first place. I'd use my MJ aircon if it worked !

Don't forget to put the recirculation on as this will minimise the energy requirement. Don't forget that the car needs more energy to cool it down initially, and then less to maintain it at that temperature, so longer runs will be more economical.
__________________
Richard
richardllew is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-07-2013   #88
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ceredigion
Posts: 33
Thanks: 2
Trader Rating: 0
swinnerton has donated!
United Kingdom 
Smile Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Have just returned from weekend in Norwich and using ac most of the time achieved 41.10 mpg using brimful tank to brimful tank...mostly Motorway and dual carriageway...52 mph average according to trip.
Engine still feels tight so should see figures increase.
Regards
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

swinnerton is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-07-2013   #89
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 88
Thanks: 10
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Just done a 140 round trip to the royal welsh show in my 4x4. Mainly single carriage a roads, lots if bends and hills and trip computer showed 52mpg. All miles done with ac on and still only done 660 miles in total.
I noticed that two things kill your mpg: speed and hills. 40mph stuck behind.a lorry was the most economical. Getting about 35mpg in my daily 2.5 mile commute to work. Downhill getting to work, uphill going home.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

doggydoctor is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-09-2013   #90
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sea
Posts: 2,517
Thanks: 277
Trader Rating: 0
deeyup has donated!
Push it Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda 4x4 twin-air mpg

Sorry to resurrect a slightly old thread, but this makes interesting reading regarding mpg.
Thanks triumph7 thanked for this post
Likes triumph7 liked this post
__________________

deeyup is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(Tu) Panda Twin Air 85. The Pretender Panda (2012+) 23 12-09-2014 09:30
(G) Running In Panda 4 x 4 Twin Air swinnerton Panda (2012+) 13 12-07-2013 22:49
(G) panda 4x4 spec twin air vs diesel panda182 Panda (2012+) 5 04-06-2013 21:49
Punto 2012+ Twin Air shocking mpg Matt84 Newbie Central 33 25-02-2013 16:24
(G) Panda 4X4 Multijet MPG... stephenbeetleman Panda 5 01-05-2008 23:12