General My thoughts on moving from a Mk3 to a Mk4 Panda

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General My thoughts on moving from a Mk3 to a Mk4 Panda

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Picked up our all new Mk4 Pandas on Friday...quick pros and cons for me of the Mk4 1.2 Easy over the Mk3 1.2 Dynamic Eco I traded in...just my 1st impressions, not an 'in-depth' review...

pros:
1) It's bigger.
2) It's more comfortable, a LOT less bouncy but still quite fun.
3) It's quieter and more refined inside, in terms of road/wind noise...real improvement over the Mk3.
4) It feels a lot more 'planted' on the road, down to the added weight and wider tyres.
5) It seats 5...(3 of which must be hobbits)
6) Gear change is nice and smooth.
7) Coming from Mk3, this 1.2 engine feels familiar in a good way :)
8) It's kinda round, but square, all over...I like the new shape!
9) The inside of the windscreen isn't wet through/frozen when I get in it unlike my Mk3, which always had a real moisture problem in that area, even from new.
10) Splash n dash filler nozzle is genius.
11) Fuel economy seems quite respectable already. It keeps telling me to put it in 5th gear at 30mph, something I didn't feel comfortable with in my Mk3 (not sure why!) Maybe it's because it is so quiet and refined therefore I can't hear it grumbling the same.

cons:
1) It's bigger! Bit of a bloater by comparison, engine feels a bit breathless as a result but I expect it to loosen off in time...I'm not feeling the 69bhp, and my Mk3 was the lower powered variant (54bhp?) The fact that it's so curvy by comparison and the bonnet curves out of sight is still freaking me out slightly :)
2) I think the steering is a bit too light, the Mk3 seemed just right but this Mk4 feels like it's in city mode full time. I'm surprised by this lightness as the tyres are a fair bit wider than the skinnies on my Mk3. It's slightly twitchier than the Mk3 too so I'm finding roundabouts a little unnerving in this thing (I've been driving 20 odd years)
3) Instruments definitely aren't as clear to read as my 2009 car, stylish for sure...but slightly too fussy for my liking.
4) I preferred the robust interior of my Mk3 ('nasty' plastics and all!). This one is all very pretty but it's got very pale seats which I can't imagine lasting as long. Seat adjusters feel flimsy. Cockpit switchgear feels nice but the Mk4 stalks don't feel any better than the Mk3 ones to me, again I find them a bit fiddly/fussy and counter intuitive, particularly things like the dual rings for front/rear wipers. I miss the air vents from the Mk3 too, so simple, well designed and easy to clean...not a fan of these Mk4 louvres.
5) Central dash computer...hmmm, I prefer analogue gauges for things like temperature and fuel...*if* it fails, you stand to lose a lot of instruments.
6) Glovebox seems a lot smaller, I'd have left the dash shelf off (mine seems particularly nasty and unfinished with some plastic fibres and a sharp edge, ouch, which I found when I put my phone on shelf). I'd never put anything on view in the car like that due to the sheer volume of scrotes wandering the streets. I'm just not a 'shelf person' :)
7) No spare! (it's a stock car so I couldn't spec one) I'm not sure about the economics at work here, I expect those compressors cost a pretty penny.
8) Stupid gimmicky handbrake. It's stupid. :) Anyone who buys one of these is going to roll back as they grab air the first time they apply the handbrake. :p
9) Expensive, glad I didn't pay full price (although mine was MASSIVELY discounted with a trade-in so I only gave just over £3.2k for it...happy days.)
10) Brand new and the boot unlock mechanism doesn't work...I wonder if it was cannibalised to satisfy another customer (as we know, a common fault this one!)
11) It wasn't made in Poland.

Verdict:
Overall it's a definite step up from my Mk3, but I was a fan of the simplicity of that car, which I think has been slightly lost here. I didn't fancy a twin air, not civilised enough for my tastes and I couldn't justify the extra dosh as this was an exercise in getting the most car for the least money :)

I'm sure this Mk4 will grow on me...I just need to live with it a bit longer. the comfort level alone is a real cut above, and I can imagine enjoying my motorway driving, and covering longer distances more often in this baby :)
 
Really interesting comparison; confirms my opinion that I won't be buying a new Panda unless there's a basic 4x4 version or a really appealing quicker version. For the first time in decades there isn't a new model of Fiat that I'd buy.
 
Really interesting comparison; confirms my opinion that I won't be buying a new Panda unless there's a basic 4x4 version or a really appealing quicker version. For the first time in decades there isn't a new model of Fiat that I'd buy.

I agree, only real reason I'm in a new Panda is because of the deal I get on Fiats and I 'liked the old one' but buying another Mk3 wouldn't have felt right. Not knocking this new one, it's a fine car and it was definitely 'Panda' enough to appeal to this Panda fan...but it's a move away from simplicity. These days however, there isn't the same market for simplicity...I think they've had to move away and add some glitz to get the buyers in, tough times!

I think there is a gap in their UK offering for something cheap and cheerful to replace the Panda so watch this space I guess...an 'austerity' Fiat would clean up...but would it net them the profits they need?
 
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Really good review there and very fair of you to find 11 pros and cons, haha!(y)

I think what you have said though is kind of what I would expect from someone who has owned a previous generation Panda. To me, Fiat have decided with this car to take it more upmarket, and I dare say they have hoped to take a lead from the 500 in terms of being able to sell lots of units and keep prices quite high.

So far though, it doesn't look like the initial prices are going to wash with the market - the 1.2 Pop is on offer again on the Fiat website I see. Not like the 500 which has seen increase after increase from launch back in 2007...

I do think it is a real improvement on the previous model, but I'm saying that as someone who's swapped a 500 for a Panda. So what I think really isn't relevant to the Panda market as I doubt there's very many other people at all who have moved from a 500 to a new Panda (could I be the only one?!!:eek:).
 
Another thing I would say is that because it's much more refined and comfortable I feel a bit separated from the mechanicals...the engine note, the steering feel and road undulations...doesnt feel as 'involving' - I guess that explains my unnerving feelings with it in places like roundabouts - I know Pandas aren't 'drivers cars' but there are elements I miss from the Mk3 which have been smoothed over for the Mk4.

I'll get over it though lol - after all, I don't miss my spine crunching Austin Mini and I had oodles of fun in that.

Oh and I miss the tall rear light towers of the Mk3...this new one has what I can only describe as buttocks, big white ones :)
 
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Great reflections on your new car - thanks for sharing. I was meaning to do a detailed post around the 1,000 mile mark, but haven't had time for a few weeks. Will try to share some of my thoughts soon having not had a mk.3 (or any car for that matter) before this one.
 
I think there is a gap in their UK offering for something cheap and cheerful to replace the Panda so watch this space I guess...an 'austerity' Fiat would clean up...but would it net them the profits they need?

Pretty much what I think, except for me austerity includes remote locking, A/C and Bluetooth, but only because these things make life so much easier and safer.

I know I go on about it, but Renault seems to be covering the austerity market quite well with the Dacias...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/...letter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/sandero/61622/can-you-guess-our-mystery-car
 
Pretty much what I think, except for me austerity includes remote locking, A/C and Bluetooth, but only because these things make life so much easier and safer.

I know I go on about it, but Renault seems to be covering the austerity market quite well with the Dacias...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/...letter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/sandero/61622/can-you-guess-our-mystery-car

I have to say I think the Dacias will shake things up a bit. I don't know an awful lot about them by any means, but if my understanding is correct:

1. It will have the same engines as the latest Clio?
2. It basically has the interior fittings from the Clio, albeit not quite the latest generation?

Price wise it does look very competitive, and if it does indeed drive like a Clio then it may well sell. But first of all they will have to get the brand across to the general public, probably in a not-to-disimilar manner as the Daewoo (remember "That'll be the Daewoo" marketing campaign....:D)
 
It is the latest Renault three cylinder petrol engine and the 1.5dCi Diesel used across the Renault/Nissan group, and now in the new Mercedes A Class. The other bits are sourced form any number of Renault cars, and the windscreens in all Dacias are identical, as are the chassis, with only slight modifications, and in some cases the front doors and dashboards are identical too. The seats are identical across the range as well, albeit with different fabric treatments, and the touch screen dash control, with the sat-nav and radio etc. functions, is apparently very easy to use, and was designed by and is made by LG. Nothing wrong there then. These cost savings keep it cheap. Plus they have a comfortable Renault ride, which all commentators comment on, and roll a bit in corners - good- that's fine by me as long as they are comfortable. In Europe Dacia has the highest customer satisfaction rating of any manufacturer.

There are other Dacias coming in the future, including the Dokker, which is based on the Renault Kangoo, sliding rear doors and all, and looks good and will be a real replacement for a car like my old Doblo, unlike the new Doblo which is too big and too expensive.

I think that once people gain confidence in them Dacias will take off here like they have in France, Germany, Italy and the Low Countries.

The thing is, these Dacias are not just recycled old parts like the Protons were, but they have some of the latest Renault technology too, and they look good.

So Fiat had better get those Brazilian cars here pronto!
 
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Pretty much what I think, except for me austerity includes remote locking, A/C and Bluetooth, but only because these things make life so much easier and safer.

I know I go on about it, but Renault seems to be covering the austerity market quite well with the Dacias...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/...letter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/dacia/sandero/61622/can-you-guess-our-mystery-car

Definitely with you on the locking ac and Bluetooth, gutted that this stock car didn't come bluetooth equipped...and still no aux jack input as standard! The after fit multimedia adapter requires drilling a hole in the glovebox etc...
 
So Fiat had better get those Brazilian cars here pronto!

That makes so little sense it's not funny. I bet neither of the engines in the Uno are Euro v compliant and the car is built on a completely different platform to the Panda. So they should build a completely different factory to build a niche product which is going to steal sales away from a more expensive model.

What part of that makes sense?

Personally I think the OP is right on the ball and that overall it is a better car. I like my 4x4, I like the fact that I can chuck my bike on the top, drive it through puddles, mud, over potholes and it just doesn't care. But our 500 is a nicer car to drive, it handles better on most roads, it's got air con, the instruments are nicer, the interior is nicer, the seats are nicer and I could go on.......

The Mk3 Panda was spot on for its day. It was the epitome of no frills motoring when it launched, but nowadays what people expect as no frills motoring is changing and the Mk4 seems to fit the bill well.

I don't understand you at all Ulpian, you're on a Fiat forum slagging off a Fiat which has generally been well received, because you like a cheap Renno which has yet to be successful in the UK market and you think that Fiat should bring Brazillian Fiat's over here to combat the Dacia's. That just doesn't make sense! If Dacia come here and totally dominate the lower end of the market then perhaps you might have a point, but that's not happened yet has it?
 
Agree with Maxi here regarding the Uno. Can't see it happening anyway, but even it was mooted it would be a very bizarre move IMO.

Honestly, I genuinely believe the 1.2 Panda Pop is the "austerity" vehicle that people are looking for, it's just that until recently the price has been too high. No way was that car worth £8900 from launch, it simply doesn't have enough standard kit to justify the price.

But you can now get a brand new 1.2 Pop for £7900, not to mention all these nearly new models which are around the £6700 mark. You might not have a great deal of standard kit, but you are still getting a really, really nice little car that drives terrifically well.

Maxi - if you do get a chance to test drive one of the new Pandas, I'd recommend it, if only just to see how it feels compared to your 500. Would be interesting to see what another 500 owner felt about it anyway!(y)
 
That makes so little sense it's not funny. I bet neither of the engines in the Uno are Euro v compliant and the car is built on a completely different platform to the Panda. So they should build a completely different factory to build a niche product which is going to steal sales away from a more expensive model.

What part of that makes sense?

I don't understand you at all Ulpian, you're on a Fiat forum slagging off a Fiat which has generally been well received, because you like a cheap Renno which has yet to be successful in the UK market and you think that Fiat should bring Brazillian Fiat's over here to combat the Dacia's. That just doesn't make sense! If Dacia come here and totally dominate the lower end of the market then perhaps you might have a point, but that's not happened yet has it?

Please get a sense of humour. I know the Brazilian car is totally different and could never meet European legislation, but I was making a point about cheap Fiats and the lack of them here.

As for slagging Fiat off, I don't, in fact I do the opposite and give credit where it is due. However, I believe that Dacia will eat into Fiat sales and I would hope that Fiat is considering this.
 
But you can now get a brand new 1.2 Pop for £7900, not to mention all these nearly new models which are around the £6700 mark. You might not have a great deal of standard kit, but you are still getting a really, really nice little car that drives terrifically well.

Good healthy debate here :) Had a longer drive in mine today and I'm starting to 'trust it' more in the bends now...and yes it does drive well. I wouldn't mind a go in some of the competitors, but test driving isn't really my thing...driven so many rubbish cars over the years, I think buyers now are a bit spoiled for choice since all manufacturers have to keep raising their game in this competitive sector :)
 
The brazilian fiat mille is to be replaced in 2014. The mille slots in below the uno in Brazil. With the latest marketing plans committing FIAT to the city car market
perhaps a version of the Mille can come to Europe to reclaim market share from Dacia at the lower end of the market. The polish plant is a low cost location and has spare capacity at present.
 
The trouble is, all European car plants have excess capacity, and the Italian workers expect first dibbs, which given their relatively high cost is a no-go long term prospect.

The key point is 'excess capacity'.

My belief is that as the generality of car buyers gradually realise they have less disposable income, with no hope of improving their wealth, they will want cheaper cars and will not necessarily be content with second hand cars left over from fleet sales. If these fleet sales themselves hold up of course. Those manufacturers who can provide these cheaper cars, no matter who they are, will gain a larger share of what may well be a chronically shrinking market.

Trying to go 'upmarket' when upmarket is itself a shrinking stratum is the recipe for failure. My point is that the world's economy is at best flatlining, and the cake will, of necessity, be sliced thinner - which means cheaper cars, or no cars at all for many people who now take them for granted.
 
My belief is that as the generality of car buyers gradually realise they have less disposable income, with no hope of improving their wealth, they will want cheaper cars and will not necessarily be content with second hand cars left over from fleet sales. If these fleet sales themselves hold up of course. Those manufacturers who can provide these cheaper cars, no matter who they are, will gain a larger share of what may well be a chronically shrinking market.

Trying to go 'upmarket' when upmarket is itself a shrinking stratum is the recipe for failure. My point is that the world's economy is at best flatlining, and the cake will, of necessity, be sliced thinner - which means cheaper cars, or no cars at all for many people who now take them for granted.

Whilst on the surface this might seem to make sense, when times are tough, people will want more for less, but they will also want to feel like they're getting as premium a product as is possible. The 500 is the prime example of this even though the quality of the interior and general build quality doesn't justify the increased price over the Mk3 Panda when they were both on sale. Whilst it may not be your thing and I respect that, it is very popular and despite being a rounded off Panda it's sold like hotcakes in the UK in the post-credit crunch era and done well for Fiat. So there's a big hole in your argument there. Not everyone has the panditus basicus (an ailment which afflicts some Panda people and makes them feel that certain features are not worth having because they'll only break and cost money). Hell, I rather suspect that some Panda owners would happily be without a ventilation fan because it's not uncommon for those on Panda's to pack up.

Sure, there is a market for cheap as chips cars, but as an Australian I've noticed that British people are very conscious about appearances and most wouldn't want the stigma of driving a Fiat, let alone a Dacia. A good deal of British people are far too concerned about making an impression on complete strangers to ever consider buying a Dacia.

Perhaps the sky is about to fall down, but there's just as much of a chance that it's not going to......
 
Sure, there is a market for cheap as chips cars, but as an Australian I've noticed that British people are very conscious about appearances and most wouldn't want the stigma of driving a Fiat, let alone a Dacia. A good deal of British people are far too concerned about making an impression on complete strangers to ever consider buying a Dacia.

...which is why -- despite the massive gains in quality, etc. (and the fact that they're basically VWs/Seats/Audis underneath) -- I know far too many people who still won't buy anything with a Skoda badge on it.... :rolleyes:

If they did either Dacia with an auto box, I'd personally be down there in a flash. I've never understood fashion; or belonging to (and looking like an identikit member of) 'the crowd'... -- and would (therefore) rather have something that's just designed and fit for purpose -- regardless of the badge.

And this is where Ulpian's argument, I feel, begins to leak a lot less... (and coincides with the "A good deal of British people" statement...): as I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way (part of the "market for cheap as chips cars"?): cost-conscious or not.

Value for money, I think, is starting to overcome the average Brit's innate snobbishness and prejudices... -- hence the growing success of Aldi and Asda (Walmart); Premier Inn, etc. (although Travelodge have shown how to do this sector badly...). Sooner or later, needs must, etc.....

Anyway: that's my old marketing hack's view of things (and still stupidly loyal to FIAT, despite them treating me like pig poo...). I'm just actually grateful that there's a corner of the Forum where such things are discussed; and we're not all just gibbering on about coil-overs and induction kits.... ;)
 
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