A number of people have wanted to fit a twin choke carburetor to a FIRE engine, and I've mentioned that someone has done this on a FIRE engined Fiat 500! The chap in question is Neil, and I spoke to him about this last night at the ACE Cafe. His car has a load of pictures on the following website, including some detailed pics of the carb and adaptor plate.

Neil told me that he used an SPI manifold, a Fiat 128 3/P carburetor (very similar to the twin choke Weber fitted to most 1116/ 1301cc ohc engines), a Punto 75SX camshaft (I think he might have used a 75 head going by the intake manifold adaptor plate) and an electric fuel pump. He also tells me it is all set up and runs well!

Anyway, for some pictures of what is involved have a look here, and click on the link 'Nigels FIRE 1108':

http://retro500.com/

I know that one of you is working on this idea already, but who's going to be first to fit one into a Panda and post up the results?!!!

I spoke to an engineer/toolmaker in Bodmin yesterday who said he could make the adaptor plate. . . . . .

Sprox said:

I spoke to an engineer/toolmaker in Bodmin yesterday who said he could make the adaptor plate. . . . . .

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how much and how much for a batch price... (i think you could get 5 confirmed orders easy) I haven't even approached any one yet about making a convertor manifold adapter.

I will make a stud pattern template for the webers... so that anyone who gets hold of a carb can compare and see if they can use the same design.

watch this space...

there are some serious Fiat 500s on that website... big boys toys.

I will need an accurate and specific Carb mounting template.
I also need the Make and Model of the Carb and where to get one from!!!!

Sprox said:

I will need an accurate and specific Carb mounting template.
I also need the Make and Model of the Carb and where to get one from!!!!

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well that's the thing... the single throttle carb that is one prtty much all of the early/pre-injection are all the same... so that bit is easy. I have two webers here. the DCOE off a old Uno selecta (1116cc ohc engine) and a DCNF 40.

I have taken the measurements of the mounting bolts of the DCNF but i want to take the measurements off the DCOE and see how similar they are... I am hoping the bolt hole distances are the same.

the diameters of the throttle bodies will be different depending on the carb however.. but you can build the inlet big to accomodate up to 34/36mm diameter throttle outlets... should make it flexible for many different models.

Tony M said:

how much and how much for a batch price... (i think you could get 5 confirmed orders easy) I haven't even approached any one yet about making a convertor manifold adapter.

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If someone can supply accurate dimensions I can machine them up on my CNC milling machine. From the pictures it doesn't look like a difficult job.

Lesnewell said:

If someone can supply accurate dimensions I can machine them up on my CNC milling machine. From the pictures it doesn't look like a difficult job.

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bingo!

i'll sort one out over the next week or two... got a few things to do today (like pick up an engine), SProx/graham have you got a carb already?... I'll make a printable template in a PDF doc that people can cut out and place of the carb bases. then we can get a good idea of how similar the bolt mounts and throttle bodies are.

Sorry, no, I don't have a carb already. I'll wait until we know what to do exactly before getting one

Sprox said:

Sorry, no, I don't have a carb already. I'll wait until we know what to do exactly before getting one

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i think there are a few that are up to the job Graham, for example Alan got hold of a X/19 weber, and there's no reason why that won't work just as well as the Uno carb that i got hold of.

Hi, I met 1986Uno45S at the ace cafe last weeks and he was asking about my carb conversion on my fire engine, the carb I used was the 32/32 DMTR from a Fiat 128 Ralley. I understand that this is very similar (perhaps the same!) to the carb fitted onto the X19.

The adaptor was made from a block of Aluminium which was dirlled with the four holes to mount onto the SPI manifold (I had one lying around but I'm sure that the standard carb one would do)

The block was then drilled through on a mill to match the bore of the inlet hole on the manifold and two further bores about 5mm deep were made at the top to match the shape of the outlet on the base of the carb. I then took the remaining material away with a die grinder to create a smooth transition from on shape to the other – I understand that at one time you could buy adaptors like this from tuning shops, but that was before my time!

I would think that your only concern would be the extra height that the adaptor adds to the engine, I'm not sure how much clearence there is.

If anybody requires any more info then please let me know.

It looks like it can all be machined from one side which makes it easier. The taper isn't so easy to program. I could do it as a series of cuts at different depths, leaving a stepped finish. This shouldn't take long to clean up with a file.
Once I know the dimensions and how many are needed I'll work out how much it will cost. Ally is getting damn expensive these days.

Tony M said:

i think there are a few that are up to the job Graham, for example Alan got hold of a X/19 weber, and there's no reason why that won't work just as well as the Uno carb that i got hold of.

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Hmmmm, I happen to have spotted a rotting x1/9 waiting to be rescued last saturday......but I'll match the carb to the adaptor as that is the bit that has to be made - PUT ME DOWN FOR AN ADAPTOR!!!!!!

ok here's a template using the WEBER DTMR30/32 carb that comes on the ohv1.1l engines the early Uno's use.

you can use this printed out as it is to place over the base of other carbs to see how closely they match. when printed out it should measure 69mm x 102mm

I can tell you for free that the DCNF carbs have a different base.

can any type of weber 32/36 carb be used, i was looking at a DGAV one on ebay and wondering about it... all the different types are confusing me somewhat.

panda4x4sisley said:

can any type of weber 32/36 carb be used, i was looking at a DGAV one on ebay and wondering about it... all the different types are confusing me somewhat.

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i think 32/36 is large for the litre engine... but really no one will know until they try it.

but any Weber with an A in the title has got a water temperature operated choke mechanism... you're probably better off with a manual choke for simplicities sake.

Anyone know the difference between a 128 coupe and 128 3p?

Alan.D said:

Anyone know the difference between a 128 coupe and 128 3p?

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The 128/ 3P gets its name from the fact that it has '3 Portals', or 3 doors in English. Basically the 3P means it's a hatchback

The Coupe has slightly different (but very sexy) rear end styling. It is only a 2 door with a bootlid, hence its 'coupe' designation.

However, I'm not that familiar with the Coupe so I could be wrong in saying that we never got it in the UK? I've only ever seen the 3P version, never the coupe. I suspect as well that the Coupe is older and was revised to make the 3P as a facelift or something.

Mechanically I would've thought they'd be the same. 1299/ 1301cc engine, twin choke Weber, hotter camshaft and 4 branch manifold. If only Fiat had used decent steel then these could have rivalled the much more dull looking Escort. Just think if we had loads of classic and rallying 128's around today rather than stodgy Escorts...

Some of my facts may be wrong so don't quite me to the letter. However, here's some pics of the 128/ 3P and the 128 Coupe. Both are gorgeous :yum:


128/ 3P





128 Coupe

It was the mechanical side I was looking at re the carb but thanks very much for the reply, I can't see why they would change it for a 2 or 3 door, I thought the 3p may have been a suped up version, but your answer settles that for me.

Cheers.

panda4x4sisley said:

can any type of weber 32/36 carb be used, i was looking at a DGAV one on ebay and wondering about it... all the different types are confusing me somewhat.

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Fitting a different carb is not just a case of grabbing any carb and bolting it on. Unless the carb is off a VERY similar engine it will need rejetting or you will probably get poor fuel economy, flat spots or even damage the engine . To do the job properly you should re-jet the carb anyway. This needs to be done by someone who really knows what they are doing, preferably on a rolling road (£££).

Just changing the carb won't make a huge difference to the power. If it was that easy Fiat would have done it. To be honest it only makes sense in conjunction with other mods (cam, porting etc). If you have a standard engine then fitting a 4x4 cam and carb is an easy way to gain 5hp. Note that doing this reduces bottom end torque quite noticeably so although it will go faster it won't be as pleasant to drive around town.

Les