Hi Everyone,
If you don't mind I'd like to pick your brains about a Panda problem...

My Panda (1994, 1000 cc) has recently lost a lot of engine power. When I put my foot down I can hear pumps and the carb sound like they're working fine but it just doesn't pick up any power. I think maybe the chambers aren't igniting properly or the fuel/air mix is Waaay out.

After a bit of investigation it seems that the spark leads are firing only intermitently. I took one of the spark leads to the chassis and it sparked sometimes and not othertimes, as the engine idles it should spark in a pretty regular pattern right? Like a clock ticking or something,

Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick
Not
Tick ..... ..... Tick ..... Tick Tick ..... as mine does

This is how I'd describe something to a mechanic in the flesh but in text it looks ridiculous. Bear with me!

I've changed the leads, they're Ok. I'm guessing it's the electronic ignition this model has. What do you reckon? Bare in mind I'm a bit of an amateur... my diagnosis could be completely wrong and I'm just barking up the wrong tree.

Also, can you recomend anyone to supply me the parts? I need fast delivery really, if I havn't fixed it by friday I'm gonna have to find the money to get someone to do it... I can't live without a working Panda.

Also. It gobbles up a lot of fuel and puts most of it out the exhaust I think... Does this Panda have a catalytic converter? Is it a bad idea to drive Panda while it's in this state?

Thanks for your help guys... I'm a big fan of the forum Just been Lurkin' without Postin' until now...

Try taking the distributor cap off and checking the rotor arm and contacts inside the cap. If they look pretty worn and/or burnt it may just need a new cap and arm. Give the cap a good look over as it may also be cracked. You can get these from any motor factor pretty cheaply.

There are two other things it could be:

1. As you say, the electronic ignition module may be faulty.

2. The coil may also be faulty.

Both of these items will be pretty expensive from a FIAT dealer but there are still plenty of Pandas around in scrap yards you could get some from. I recently paid £30 for a distributor and coil from a scrapyard.

From your description it seems that not all cylinders are firing all the time which will dramatically reduce power and increase fuel consumption as you put your foot to the floor to compensate. A lot of your fuel is currently only washing the cylinder bores and going down the exhaust pipe. I don't know what effect soaking the cat in petrol will have though.

Don't think it has a dizy - it should have SPI with a twin coil setup, as far as I can work out its a lost spark system so I am guessing that it go Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick. If it was missing in normal driving conditions it would be very lumpy and sound a bit diesel like. Have you replaced them with Fiat leads? What sort of fuel are you running it on? Not much help I know

PS
The cat won't like unburnt fuel

The tick........tick.tick.....tick...............tick (don't believe I just did that :bang: ) is probably more to do with the spark jumping at the nearest earth than the ign unit, as above being a 1994 it will have spi. Try removing the Air filter & give the carb a good spray with carb cleaner. will also need a good run up the duel carridgeway to get rid of the cobwebs as pandas need to be driven like your italian on occasions (make sure you got MOT, tax, ins before you go)

Most motor factors will be about the same but avoid places like halfords as they are more expensive. If you find a decent motor factors try to get a rapport going and ask advice, they will become more & more helpfull when they get used to you and prices may get cheaper, also ebay is good but would be pushing it for fri.

Good luck with it & welcome to the site.

Thanks for your replies.

Hi Neverstop, I've just put new leads in to rule them out so I don't think it's them, they're not offical but the parts man looked them up in his book so I guess they're OK. I'm using higher octane fuel to prevent a bit of pinking that she's had recently, I think that's unrelated... it was pinking months before it started losing power like this.

I've looked at my Haynes manual and it describes a set up that isn't much like mine. Instead of having a distributor and a coil I have a single rectangular block that sit on the end of the camshaft... No seperate coil to be found. Is this an original fiat part or has this thing already been replaced once?

http://sichidesign.intersichi.info/IMGP2640.JPG

Perhaps this isn't something I can reasonably do myself, I don't want to replace something only to find out that it wasn't the problem. It has been known! What do your reckon a mechanic would charge...

DanL said:

http://sichidesign.intersichi.info/IMGP2640.JPG

Perhaps this isn't something I can reasonably do myself, I don't want to replace something only to find out that it wasn't the problem. It has been known! What do your reckon a mechanic would charge...

Click to expand...

the hexagonal bolts heads on the lower pic in the centre of the rectangular block will loosen to let you see if the rotor arm is worn.

Tony M said:

the hexagonal bolts heads on the lower pic in the centre of the rectangular block will loosen to let you see if the rotor arm is worn.

Click to expand...

Sorry Tony, but he doesn't have a rotor arm. The bit pictured is the original Fiat coil packs, you do have to fit leads designed for them and not a carbed car.

Other potential problems with your car are dirty injector or faulty exhaust lamba sensor. Is the dashboard red injection light on when running?

It may be worth taking your car to a friendly fiat dealer as your ecu has a diagnostic port and they can do a quick check(may cost £30-£40).

cheers Damon

Just had another thought, the sensor on the crank pully if it gets really gummed up it may not read the signal properly.

I gave the carb an inspection as best I could, it's a lovely simple design isn't it? very easy to get into. It was spraying ok, I think the carb was doing exactly what it was told... it's just being told to do silly things I think. Something's causing the engine to choke and lose power almost to the point of stalling and then the carb compensates by pumping in more fuel and plenty more air it sounds like.
I think I was barking up the wrong tree with the ignition... perhaps it's an exhaust thing? Like it's not clearing OK and choking up the engine. I wish I had more time and space to tinker really... but I need a working car really so it's gone into the garage. A place called N.E Vehicle in Plymouth specialise in Fiats so I took Her to him, apparently he's owned 15 Panda's over the years so she should be in good hands
Just hope it isn't going to need a new cat or cost too much £££. And what's with all these digital whats-its? ECU's with memory, electronic ignition, diagnostic ports... This is the most technologically advanced car I've ever owned! Who'd have thought it from a Panda?

:chin: :idea: I did once have a cinq and the exhaust box had blocked with the baffles braking down and the interior has a fibreglass filling like isulating foam that completely clogged it. The box had actually expanded it was that bad, so worth a look and will only take a few seconds.

Hi
What a coincidence, I too have a distributorless Single Point Injection Panda, and it too has an intermittent problem - again seems to be chucking too much fuel in, it will gradually run out of power, sometimes a prod of the throttle will cure, else it dies. Most of the time it restarts without a problem. On the odd occasion it doesnt, it takes ages!!

Since coming to "a fuel problem" conclusion,Ive replaced Coil pack, HT leads, plugs and Lambda sensor. I know the temperature sensor is faulty (reads -27C), so was left disconnected at the recent MOT, as Im told it just defaults to something..

Did this thread ever come to a conclusion....?

Regards
Andy
:yuck:

We were hoping that the original poster would come back and post the cure if he has located it. That was some weeks ago and so far, he has not.
If and when you establish what the cause is, we would appreciate your input.
Thanks and Rgds.

Hi Petel

If I do sort / fix it , I will drop a note. Regards Andy

Hello - Ive not forgotten - Im just living with it for now. Looking at getting hold of another throttle body as a starting point....

Alan.D said:

:chin: :idea: I did once have a cinq and the exhaust box had blocked with the baffles braking down and the interior has a fibreglass filling like isulating foam that completely clogged it. The box had actually expanded it was that bad, so worth a look and will only take a few seconds.

Click to expand...

That's interesting - I had some stuff hanging out of the exhaust the other day, it looked like hair , but when I pulled it out it felt harsh like loft insulation. I take it that the back box is probably on the way out then??

Cheers,

Plug

Plug said:

That's interesting - I had some stuff hanging out of the exhaust the other day, it looked like hair , but when I pulled it out it felt harsh like loft insulation. I take it that the back box is probably on the way out then??

Cheers,

Plug

Click to expand...

Yes that will clog it up like you won't believe if you get it emptied you basically have a straight through back box and the car will fly

Hi guys, So sorry I couldn't get back and tell you what the conclusion was. I had to move house and was left without internet for a couple of months. Hope You get this before replacing anything else alfa115spider!

I took it to a Panda specialist in plymouth and the conclusion was that the exhaust was blocked in some way causing the exhaust gases to back up into the engine and choke it, the Oxygen sensor picks up on the weird oxy/fuel balance, assumes it's the mix that is wrong and then attempts to adjust things by putting in more and more petrol!
I didn't ask what it was that blocked the exhaust but the fibreglass stuffing that Alan suggests seems like the most likely culprit. The mechanic replaced the exhaust pipe and then put some sort of cleaning formula in the fuel to clean the dirtied up lambda sensor, 15 miles of driving with the formula in and Panda was back to normal with no long term damage. Cost about £150.

Happy days...

well at least it's sorted now... enjoy the ride.

Hello DanL.
Glad to hear you got it sorted and thanks for coming back to let us know what the problem was.
Rgds.