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I am reworking a blown head gasket on my 1993 1000 Fire. I bought one of the panda books to help me out as I've always wanted to do something like this.
I'm puzzled as the book shows two kinds of distributors, neither of which my Panda seems to have. It has no distributor that I can find and I've taken most of the components apart for cleaning and inspection.
It does have a sensor on the crankshaft pulley system, which is not pictured in any of the photos in this book. The sensor made by Bosch and is held on by a small hex bolt on the block. There is a set of teeth on this pulley outside of the alternator belt "grooves". I think that this sensor performs the timing, but I'm not sure. Anyone seen this and can you tell me if I'm right?
Thanks,
Auguste

yeah that will be the TDC(top dead centre) sensor or sumink like that.you probably have ECU controlled ignition

The Fiat Cinquecento
Fun While It Runs

Originally posted by custard boy
you probably have ECU controlled ignition

Click to expand...

Could you possibly tell me what an ECU is? Merci!

ECU or ECM Electronic Control Unit/Module. Controls most main parts of the engine management, ie. idle speed, CO mixture etc. Your engine hasn't really got the serviceable parts that the distributor models had, ie. points, cap or rotor arm. Your engine probably has twin coils on the right hand side of the cylinder head, where the distributor should be.
There aren't any servicable parts, they should just be left alone. Igintion leads can be changed as normal, just make sure you get the right ones for it.

Hope this helps

Pete
K&N Induction Kit On A Panda?? Never!!!

enzo on the 50bhp 4x4 thread mentions a distibuterless ignition on pandas and has a link to an italian site if you speak italion that will of course help:I

The Fiat Cinquecento
Fun While It Runs

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Thanks for the information so far, it is a help! I've done some reading on the concepts and think I understand what's going on. Now for the real problem:
In order to get the timing belt off, I had to remove the crankshaft pulley and did not note the position it was attached. How do you put it back on in the right position or does it matter?

Thanks again - Auguste

on the pulley there will be a mark(1cm line) which is the timing mark and this should align with a mark on the surround of the pulley,if you are talking about just a toothed wheel which is only there for the sensor to read then it shouldn't matter AFAIK

The Fiat Cinquecento
Fun While It Runs

Does your engine bay look like this one:
http://www.fiatpanda.itgo.com/htmlfire/fotofire/motore+barra_duomi.jpg

Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!

Enzo,
Yup, it looks just like that. I looked as closely as I could and the "thingy" on the right side of the cam housing looks like the thingy in my engine. From the thingy, the leads go the plugs.
As CBoy points out, there are teeth on the wheel in question. The sensor aligns with the teeth perfectly. There are only three possible positions for this wheel as there are three holes. I will take a few snapshots tonight and post them to my web site.

On the inside is the pulley for the alternator belt.

Auguste

Regarding manuals there are at least 4 different "Haynes" versions for the Panda.

The last edition covers 1981 to 1995 and should cover brake servo and distributorless ignition. (My 1981 to 1993 edition covers SPI, but with a distributor[:0] - which my 1993 CLX has)

There is currently one on Ebay here with 4 days to run.

My "Porter" manual, which says it covers upto 1994, doesn't help with ECUs and sensors at all, but does mention the brake servo. (Fitted to UK spec from Feb 1993, according to PandamanPaul.)

I think the correct way to operate is:turn the crankshaft's pulley until the mark on the flywheel matches the "0" mark on the casing...now you've the 1st piston at the TDC;then make sure the car can't move and select the 1st speed (or the reverse[8D]) and start to dismantle the alternator pulley,belt and the plastic carter...now mark the exact position of the pulley, so you won't need to guess it when the gasket's job is finished[:0]!I'm pretty sure there's only one position for the pulley to let the engine run...but if you want to make experiments tell us about it!

Regarding the parts you bought to do the gasket...did you get a new set of oil seals and bolts[?] Then don't forget to have the head skimmed, as the overheating could have deformed the planeB).The last thing I'd like to know is the correct wrench setting for this engine...

Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!

Hi, thanks for the notes - too bad it is too late to note the position of the alternator belt pulley, I've taken it off the crankshaft. If you look at http://www.grammarian.com/Panda/ECU.htm you will see the parts in question and maybe someone can tell me if there is a way to reposition the alterntor pulley/ECU wheel using that big gap in the picture.
I can easily get the pistons 1 and 4 to the TDC position, they seem to move together and the mark on the timing belt pulley is easy to align to the mark on the block.
As for the kit, I've just completed the inventory and we're going to the Fiat shop this week to pick up the gaskets, a new thermostat, some new hoses. We did have the head resurfaced so I think we're OK to go. It is going to get cold in La Suisse this weekend so we might not get to this until it warms up above freezing.
Cheers,
Auguste

I don't know the way to refit it, but here are some thoughts:

When I did the belt on the CL, ISTR there was only one of the three possible ways it would bolt on correctly. I can't remember if it was a key, or other bit of metal sticking out... but it wouldn't sit correctly and needed rotating before it would.

The gap in the picture is presumably the datum. I would expect it to be in excess of 40 degrees advanced from TDC with respect to your sensor/pick-up:
AIUI it's common for the timing "mark" to be advanced to maximum the engine needs, as you can delay pulses easily - as needed for engine speed, manifold vacuum, etc - but you can't easily advance them.

If the pulley will fit in the three positions (and my memory of the thing is wrong) as they're 120 degrees different it should be obvious which position is right.

If all else fails, you can reposition it through the aperture in the wheel arch fairly easily with the wheel off.

Just wondering,

my car (marbella 900) has an ECU, a cat convertor and a carb with manual choke. Why does it need the ECU if I control the choke?

could be controlling the electronic ignition to control the emissions?

The Fiat Cinquecento
Fun While It Runs

Originally posted by ottiian
Just wondering,

my car (marbella 900) has an ECU, a cat convertor and a carb with manual choke. Why does it need the ECU if I control the choke?

Click to expand...

Has it got ATS and CTS??

If not, it can't know how rich a mixture to give for cold start-up, but presumably it can (mechanically) fine adjust the mixture for normal running, when things are warmed up, and the lambda sensor is switching (or not).

I guess this may be one function of your buzzer:
Hoi!! the mixture is too rich! put the choke in.

YMMV.


John H

As the temperatures went above freezing today, I was able to get back to the Panda and check the alternator pulley to see if there is a registration mark. Indeed, as John H points out, there is only one way this pulley can really fit. In between the two bolt holes in the photo is a blurry "hole" under the makers mark which fits into a pin on the timing belt pulley.
So, mystery solved and it should be pretty easy to get the crankcase setup for reassembly.
Merci Auguste