General Sump plug torque wrench setting

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General Sump plug torque wrench setting

PandaManPaul

Owner of Gemma the Panda
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Just a quick question.

Servicing the car earlier (gave her Castrol GTX Magnatec 15W40, Fram oil filter, air filter, fuel filter, and NGK spark plugs) and we realised that there's no mention in the green Haynes book about the correct torque wrench setting for the sump plug.

Does anybody know [?]

I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me please :)

beaker.gif
 
It's not in the blue one either :D

Sorry - my Porter manual has done a disappearing trick :(

Steve - [the barking
B-button.gif
is having a rest]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Fiat Panda! (with apologies to the Queen of the Blues)
 
Hmm.. You know, I've never torqued that up.

Quite right about Haynes, though.

Not much better in Porter either:
gives figures for the back axle drain plug on a 4x4 (!)
46 Nm.
It's certainly different to Haynes.

I'm not sure if it's in the drivers book that came with the car - that's in the CL which lives away from here now.
 
OMG - the Owner Handbook says:

"Sump capacity from "Min" to "MAX" marks on dipstick is approx 1kg (2.2 lbs). Never exceed MAX. To drain the sump, remove the oil filler cap, partially withdraw the dipstick and let the oil drain out for about 10 minutes. When oil has almost drained, it is good practice to run the engine for a few seconds."

Whoever wrote that must be a dipstick himself. If I went to a motor factor and asked for 2 lbs of oil, I would be an utter laughing stock. And to run the car after draining the oil: words fail me!

And no, it doesn't even mention undoing the sump plug let alone tightening it, although to their credit there is an illustration showing a nice clean sump plug and spanner.

Steve - [the barking
B-button.gif
is having a rest]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Fiat Panda! (with apologies to the Queen of the Blues)
 
Originally posted by steveyensen
OMG - the Owner Handbook says:

"Sump capacity from "Min" to "MAX" marks on dipstick is approx 1kg (2.2 lbs). Never exceed MAX. To drain the sump, remove the oil filler cap, partially withdraw the dipstick and let the oil drain out for about 10 minutes. When oil has almost drained, it is good practice to run the engine for a few seconds."
[:0][:0][:0] Run the engine? [:0][:0][:0]

Thank-you both for looking for me. :)

beaker.gif
 
What a brilliant idea! It would remove all the varnish from the moving bits.[:eek:)]

Dave. :)

Marea 2.0 20v
FIATcentral window sticker
Blue gaiters
Blue sidelights
Blue interior lights
Blue lacquer on engine
Feeling blue ;)
Ecotek fitted, removed and waiting for warm weather
So much to do, so little time.... and Totally Skint!! :(
 
Oddly though, running with no oil (in the filter, and hence the bearings) is what most do on start-up after an oil change.

How many can honestly say they pull the distributor cap off, or disable the injector, for the first few* seconds cranking until the oil light goes out, after an oil change?

I usually get silly comments from the neighbours about it being broken..


John H


* seems like an eternity: 10, maybe 20 seconds [xx(]
 
Most of my neighbours comments about my Panda are unprintable :(

Steve - [the barking
B-button.gif
is having a rest]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Fiat Panda! (with apologies to the Queen of the Blues)
 
Originally posted by steveyensen
OMG - the Owner Handbook says:

"Sump capacity from "Min" to "MAX" marks on dipstick is approx 1kg (2.2 lbs). Never exceed MAX. To drain the sump, remove the oil filler cap, partially withdraw the dipstick and let the oil drain out for about 10 minutes. When oil has almost drained, it is good practice to run the engine for a few seconds."

Whoever wrote that must be a dipstick himself. If I went to a motor factor and asked for 2 lbs of oil, I would be an utter laughing stock. And to run the car after draining the oil: words fail me!

And no, it doesn't even mention undoing the sump plug let alone tightening it, although to their credit there is an illustration showing a nice clean sump plug and spanner.

Steve - [the barking
B-button.gif
is having a rest]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Fiat Panda! (with apologies to the Queen of the Blues)

Been thinking a bit:

I'll bet it's a "non-technical" persons translation of the original Italian, which fell through the proof reading...

Plus the 1Kg of oil is probably a litre.
Do you measure oil by weight, or volume, in Italy?

I sometime see references to grease being in weight, but seldom liquids - except in cooking mode[:eek:)]
Fluid ounces, anyone? (age less than 30)
 
Originally posted by John H
Oddly though, running with no oil (in the filter, and hence the bearings) is what most do on start-up after an oil change.

How many can honestly say they pull the distributor cap off, or disable the injector, for the first few* seconds cranking until the oil light goes out, after an oil change?
Well, although I don't do that, I can honestly say that yesterday after changing the oil, the oil light went out as normal on the first start-up. Just stayed on for about 1.5 seconds, then went out.

Thing is, we poured in the oil really slowly, with the aid of a funnel, to eliminate the amount of air in the system.

But you're probably right John - most likely poor translation in the owners handbook.

beaker.gif
 
My mental image of what happens on draining the oil, and removing the filer, goes something like this:

With the engine hot, to ease the draining of the oil, the oil flows out of the sump, oil pump (when the filter is removed), and oilways.

On fitting the (empty) oil filter, and refilling the engine with oil, the oil pump has to prime itself, fill the filter up, and pressurise the oilways sufficiently for the oil pressure warning lamp to go out.

There is no possibility of prefilling the filter on the FIRE engine as the filter is horizontal: the holes on "top" are on the sides when fitted to the engine.

Obviously at cranking speed <200 rpm it will take a while to fill the filter etc, but the load on the bearing journals is just the compression of the engine, and there's a bit of oil coating the surfaces which wouldn't drain out anyway.

My argument for doing it that way is that if you just start the engine - the light will go out fast(er), as the tick-over speed is about 900 rpm, but during that second or two the bearings are dry, and have the full load of the engine firing on them.

I'm not sure careful pouring will make any difference to the air in the system, as it mostly drains back to the sump, and is force fed to the bearings of the parts with heavy loads: crankshaft, camshaft, big ends, and anything else I've forgotten:I

It's not like the cooling system in the respect of airlocks etc, there's a lot of empty space which the crankshaft and conrods whiz about in, with a large puddle of oil - the sump - (with a wet sump system) underneath them.


It probably won't make a beans worth of difference anyway - I've heard enough things in the past which would clatter on start-up as all the oil had drained out of the bearings the night before, and they went for years without any problems.
It just niggles me a bit, that's all;)
 
Most engines will run for a surprising amount of time with no oil, the only effect being increased wear. Sods law states that it will be your engine that has the conflicting tolerances that heats up to destruction within two minutes.
My mate took his sump plug off on a raised manhole cover down the bottom of my road, he got 10 miles down the road before the engine dropped out.

Dave. :)

Marea 2.0 20v
FIATcentral window sticker
Blue gaiters
Blue sidelights
Blue interior lights
Blue lacquer on engine
Feeling blue ;)
Ecotek fitted, removed and waiting for warm weather
So much to do, so little time.... and Totally Skint!! :(
 
Hello guys...have been far for a week, but I found interesting topics...as usual:D!Regarding the advices given by the Haynes I can surely say they're a correct translation of the original Fiat manual...if someone wants to read it I'll post the complete text:).If you worry about lack of lubrication during the first start after an oil change you could fill your new filter before fitting it...so the oil will reach the rings more quikly:p!



Passion has no brands or models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
 
Originally posted by Enzo
If you worry about lack of lubrication during the first start after an oil change you could fill your new filter before fitting it...so the oil will reach the rings more quikly:p!

If you try filling the filter on the FIRE engine before fitting, it all pours out up your shirt sleeve when you fit itB) - the cartridge is mounted horizontally.

AFAIK the (piston) rings, and bores, are splash lubricated.
 
Thank-you all for suggestions, ideas, and comments :)

But can I assume that no-one knows the correct tightness of the sump plug? |)

beaker.gif
 
Sump plugs generally do not get 'torqued up'.
Replace the washer on the plug if fitted. Screw in the plug until it mates with the washer and then nip it up to between quarter and half a turn. It's a bit of a feely job;)

Dave. :)

Marea 2.0 20v
FIATcentral window sticker
Blue gaiters, Blue sidelights, Blue interior lights, Blue lacquer on engine, feeling blue ;)
Ecotek fitted, removed and waiting for warm weather
So much to do, so little time.... and Totally Skint!! :(
 
Originally posted by polecat
Sump plugs generally do not get 'torqued up'.
Replace the washer on the plug if fitted. Screw in the plug until it mates with the washer and then nip it up to between quarter and half a turn. It's a bit of a feely job;)
There isn't a washer. The plug is a tapered design, and if excessively over-tightened, could crack the sump. [:0]

beaker.gif
 
mmm...
Well apart from the obvious 'don't overtighten it' I'm afraid that's all I can offer:( Sorry :I
How about loctite and a little care?

Dave. :)

Marea 2.0 20v
FIATcentral window sticker
Blue gaiters, Blue sidelights, Blue interior lights, Blue lacquer on engine, feeling blue ;)
Ecotek fitted, removed and waiting for warm weather
So much to do, so little time.... and Totally Skint!! :(
 
We always do it carefully. :)

But it'd be nice to know the correct tightness, so as to make sure we've done it properly.

beaker.gif
 
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