Technical No Dipped or Main Beam

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Technical No Dipped or Main Beam

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Aug 9, 2010
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Hi

I would be grateful for some help. I have read many of the threads on headlights, switches and relays. I couldn't find one that quite matched my circumstances...

The headlights on my 1992 CLX have stopped working.

The sidelights work on both the sidelight switch position and the headlight position. The rear lights work. The switch is positive and doesn't appear worn and does not smell of burning (So I concluded that the switch is working(?))

The headlight do not work on dipped or full beam although the full beam does work when pulling the full beam stalk towards me (ie "flashing") So I concluded that the bulbs haven't gone

I have checked the fuses for dipped and main beam. All are intact and fully pushed in.

I uprated the earth cables some time ago and this is not an intermittent fault and no other electrical items are malfunctioning so I dont think it is an earthing issue.

By a process of elimination (possibly flawed!) I have arrived at the relay (which I read controlled dipped and full beam). From reading previous posts I understand it is the black one, top right of the fuse panel. This is pushed right into position.

Do relays fail? If they do, what is the best way to confirm or eliminate it as the culprit?

Many thanks
 
sounds like it could be the relay that has failed on the fuse box. try swapping the relays around.. you will have a few that look the same.. swap them. one will be heated rear window and one will be headlights. just swap them for now then if that does fix it, replace the failed relay with any standard 4 or 5 pin relay
 
Many thanks.
Success! I swapped relays and the headlamps did start to work although only on dipped rather than main beam.
So next step is to buy a replacement relay. The faulty one is a 5 pin 12V 10/20A. Do I need to replace with exactly the same spec (which is proving difficult to find)?
You wrote: "replace the failed relay with any standard 4 or 5 pin relay" Are the number of pins and the 10/20A rating particularly significant?
Thanks again
 
the headlights only require 4 pins. the middle pin of the relay is what it rests on when the relay has no power thus not used.

12v rating needs to be that however so long as the relay is 20 or above amps it should be fine. usually replacement relays are 30 amp rated and will work fine.

like i say, they are just standard common automotive relays. any universal relay will work ;)


now about your high beams. you say your headlamps worked on dipped beam? do the main headlight bulbs come on all be them very dim, when you put your light switch to the first side light position?
some pandas have a "dim dip" resistor under the bonnet. usually on the suspension top mount near the battery, or near the radiator fan.
it looks like a metal rectangle square with open ends, windows in the side, a thing inside it that looks like a thin spring, and 3 wires going into it.

oh i found a picture:

attachment.php


if you have that, for now just disconnect the middle wire from that. just so we can get better results.

you can leave it disconnected if you want. i never have mine connected. makes it more easy to see if you have a side light bulb blown in the headlights.

its common that the earthing points on these sometimes require a bit of a clean up. on later cars they fixed it by using crimped ring connectors rather than a multi spade connector. if you have the multi spade connector just get a bit of sand paper on it. i made a post about it in the "Panda (Classic) FAQs - First Stop for Information and Fault Finding" thread under "Electrical" subtitle. some things you may want to try out in that..


i recommend you try the other fixes first before undertaking this:
hmm theres one other thing. now i have had it where the wire crimp connectors for the steering column switches have failed.. unlike modern cars where every switch just sends a signal to a relay to turn things on, on a old panda the full power used by the high beams go through the column switches. so sadly they can fail. thankfully you can just cut the old offending connections out of the plug and replace them with crimp connectors. you'll know which wires are getting the connection fault. they will be all discoloured and the plastic connector will be melted. the only issue with this is that to get to the column switches, you need to take the steering column cowling off, which requires the steering wheel to be removed. though not a hard job, they can get stuck on! 2x cross head screws on the back of the steering wheel hold the horn button in and under that its a 24mm nut to hold the steering wheel onto the shaft. may i make a recommendation and undo the nut but then put it back on a few turns.. sometimes you have to get a little crazy pulling on the wheel like a mad man to get it to come off.. and ill admit that i have had it let go and smack myself in the face with it. nothing like learning the hard way. drop the flappy dash panel down by undoing one of the plastic retainers on each side of the car then undo the column switches through a hole in the bottom of the steering column cowling. theres a 8mm nut that you undo a few turns and that loosens the switches to get the cowling off works the same way as a hose clamp. ;)
after all that it should just all slide forwards and you then can get access.

hope this helps!
 
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Apologies - I need to rewind somewhat...

I tried the new relay and still no dipped or full beam. So then I swapped the existing relays again and still no dipped or main beam. Now I realise when testing with a swapped relay the first time (I had the bulb out of the lamp housing and sitting exposed) that I saw the main bulb on sidelights so did not see the swapped relay fix the original problem.

So a new relay has not fixed the problem (and I think I have fried the indicator relay - yes I tried that one by mistake - and that did smell very hot when I tried it and now the indicators don't work - sheepish)

Is it safe to assume it is not the relay after all? Are there other tests I should do?

What should I check next? The column switches DragonMan described in his last post, the connectors under the steering column and the switch on the dashboard?

Also, is there a standard spec for the indicator relay I now need to replace or should I replace exactly with : "12V 42/46W (x2)" ?

Many thanks
 
sorry to hear about the indicator relay. if you pull it out and look underneath where the pins are you should see some letters by the pins. if you can, match them up with another indicator relay and it should work. how many pins does your indicator relay have?

as for the lights, the next step i would check is the switch. sadly i do not have a pinout for the switch. though it is something i will try to work out if i can find a switch.

it has also been known that the ignition switch its self can cause some interesting issues with power distribution around the car, but this is usually on really high miles pandas. over 100k miles.

check over some of the things i previously posted.

i am going on all of the issues i have had here so someone may also post something more simple it could be.
 
Quick Update:

I found the exact match for the indicator relay online and the indicators and hazards are back working. So at least back to where I started at the beginning of this thread.

For the headlamps, my next job is to check the switch by removing dashboard cover. So sitting in the car I am working out where the screws are and then move the headlight switch to see if that will need to come off first with the heater control knob ends. Hey presto! Headlamps come on (and then I check the full beam and that works too):bang:

I haven't checked the switch yet but will do. But with the headlights still on, I did "wiggle" the wires on the earthing hedgehog to check for a dodgy connection here. With some determined wiggling (not at the spade connection end but in the bunch of earth wires), I could get the headlamps to go off and come on again instantly with a electrical type contact clicking noise coming from behind the battery bulkhead. It was determined wiggling, well beyond normal road vibration or pothole banging.

I hope this description makes sense.

Making progress, but only thanks to your help so far.

I'll update again when I have looked at the switch
 
Resolved - I think...

Sidelight/Headlight switch looked fine.

The dipped beam kept working until I prodded the wires running from the column switches at which stage it stopped working again.

I took the steering wheel off , the cloth dashboard shelf off and loosened steering column cowling, exposing the 3 wiring connectors.

The 2 white plastic connectors looked fine, but one of the spade connectors on the red one showed signs of excessive heat and the female connector looked like it had warped, allowing movement and maybe a loose connection. (Photo)

I straightened the female connector, tested the headlights and they worked and then put everything back together.

Does this sound like a plausible fix or am I being too optimistic? and do I need to be overly concerned about he cause of the "excessive heat" signs?

Many thanks
 

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Just re-read some of your previous instructions and realise that apart from by passing the plastic connectors, this was the fix.
If there is a next time, I'll by pass the connectors!
I really appreciate the help. Thanks
 
i have always found that the connected between the male and female spade connections are always fine. its always the connection between the metal of the crimp spade connector and the wire to be at fault. the actual crimp failed.
a simple fix is to solder the crimp making sure the copper wire and the spade connector is tinned. i had to solder every one on one of my pandas. enjoy brighter headlights after you do it too!

ahh experience is a wonderful thing. *crys*
 
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