Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22-05-2020   #1
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Stockport
Posts: 3,295
Thanks: 57
Trader Rating: 0
pooroldcodger has donated!
United Kingdom 
brake lines

I am preparing to get kitted up for making new brake lines. As this is obviously a very safety - critical part of the car I will be doing polkenty of off-car practising first, once I have bought the right tools for the job.
Can anybody advise me - are the flares on the factory fitted brake lines SAE or DIN flares?
Thank you.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

pooroldcodger is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-05-2020   #2
I Void Warranties
 
Dragon Man's Avatar
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The East Midlands, Derby.
Posts: 5,114
Thanks: 300
Trader Rating: 0
Dragon Man has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

pandas use a din flare, on a 3/16 pipe usually use a 10mm union. i was able to do some cracking flares using a cheap ebay kit for 10. its done everything from brake lines to copper fuel lines to even air conditioning pipework as they support loads of different sizes.

just always make sure you slide the union up the pipe before you flare the end!
*like i never did... many times.. sigh*
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock, pooroldcodger thanked for this post
Likes pooroldcodger liked this post
Dragon Man is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-05-2020   #3
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Stockport
Posts: 3,295
Thanks: 57
Trader Rating: 0
pooroldcodger has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Thanks John! Much appreciated.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

pooroldcodger is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-05-2020   #4
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 342
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Here are my tools both bought many years ago:

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1080153.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	795.6 KB
ID:	209305

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1080157.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	811.3 KB
ID:	209306

Both have their limitations. With the first one, which only does brake pipes, despite the fact it has a pin which acts to line things up, you need to be careful to get the two die halves lined up "just so". As long as you do it makes lovely flares. The second one is much easier to use but relies on the long "spindle" to centralize the flare to the end of the pipe. The problem with this is that it sometimes, because it goes so far into the pipe, gets really tight to remove after you've formed the flare. I haven't broken it yet but I'm very conscious that it must be removed without bending which would be liable to snap that wee protuberance off and leave it in the end of the pipe. The first tool has a much shorter "pip" to stop the tube collapsing and you can use the threaded nut to withdraw the punch in a straight line. The biggest limitation though is that pretty much all these cheaper tools will only really deal with copper, or maybe Cunifer (cupro nickel) tubing. Steel is really to hard for them. If I had the money I would but a Sykes Pickavant Flaremaster 2:

https://www.sykes-pickavant.com/prod...aring-tools/65

In the unlikely event you decided to buy one make sure its a "2" - The first version had a weakness which could cause it to fracture.

Oh yes and like John says above, don't forget to put the tube nuts onto the pipe before flaring. I too have done that more than once! and slide the tube nuts to their relative end of the tube before bending. Wouldn't be the first time I've ended up with a perfectly flared pipe complete with 2 tube nuts at one end and all the bends carefully formed with no chance now of getting one of the nuts to the other end of the pipe! (best not to try straightening and rebending copper - or Cunifer - as they work harden. Ok, you can anneal but better not to need to?)

By the way both my tools are SAE. the difference is in the shape of the back of the flare when compared to a DIN. I find that because the Copper/Cunifer is a soft material it deforms to take up the shape of the nut as you tighten it. I worried at first when DIN started to become the norm that the nut would cut into the back of the flare and cause problems but I've looked at ones I've done previously and then removed later and I don't see any problems. The inner edge of the tube nut is chamfered where it bears on the pipe which helps a lot. Look at the two metric nuts on the right hand side here:

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1080164.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	539.2 KB
ID:	209307

and look at how neatly the back end of the flare sits into the chamfer:

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1080166.JPG
Views:	7
Size:	515.1 KB
ID:	209308

Lovely jubbly and I've never had a problem with leaks or fractures. Been using that first tool since the '70s.
Thanks pooroldcodger thanked for this post
Likes pooroldcodger liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-05-2020   #5
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 3,298
Thanks: 174
Trader Rating: 0
chris3234 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Man View Post
pandas use a din flare, on a 3/16 pipe usually use a 10mm union. i was able to do some cracking flares using a cheap ebay kit for 10. its done everything from brake lines to copper fuel lines to even air conditioning pipework as they support loads of different sizes.

just always make sure you slide the union up the pipe before you flare the end!
*like i never did... many times.. sigh*
Also make sure it's the correct way around
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

chris3234 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-05-2020   #6
I Void Warranties
 
Dragon Man's Avatar
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The East Midlands, Derby.
Posts: 5,114
Thanks: 300
Trader Rating: 0
Dragon Man has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
Also make sure it's the correct way around
i never had that issue. pretty much every flare you do on a panda will be a male flare.
really enjoy replacing brake lines. copper/nickel pipe is lovely to work with.
Thanks pooroldcodger thanked for this post
Likes pooroldcodger, Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
Dragon Man is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-05-2020   #7
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Stockport
Posts: 3,295
Thanks: 57
Trader Rating: 0
pooroldcodger has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Thank you for such detailed replies guys. Your guidance is really appreciated!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

pooroldcodger is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 24-05-2020   #8
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 3,298
Thanks: 174
Trader Rating: 0
chris3234 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Man View Post
i never had that issue. pretty much every flare you do on a panda will be a male flare.
really enjoy replacing brake lines. copper/nickel pipe is lovely to work with.
I didn't mean putting the wrong flare on
More placing it the wrong way around e.g having the threaded part facing inward rather then outward
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
Likes pooroldcodger, Dragon Man liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

chris3234 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-03-2021   #9
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: belfast
Posts: 94
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
binhoker has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

i have found this cheap brake pipe tool works well its called blackline but iam sure its sold under other names too. i previously had an even cheaper flare set that did many sizes very badly before it broke.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	brake flare tool.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	18.0 KB
ID:	215947  
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock, jackwhoo liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

binhoker is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-03-2021   #10
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 342
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Quote Originally Posted by binhoker View Post
i have found this cheap brake pipe tool works well its called blackline but iam sure its sold under other names too. i previously had an even cheaper flare set that did many sizes very badly before it broke.
I've seen this tool advertised before and it looks very much like a simplified version of the first tool I bought - see above post. The Rally Design advert (where they are advertising it for 6.25) states it's SAE and I see SAE on the die head of your picture. Our Fiats should have a DIN flare but I've used my SAE tools on them for years without any leaks or other problems. That is with Cupro/nickel and copper tubing. Don't think it'll work with steel pipe though.

I agree with John Dragon Man above about replacing metal brake lines being an enjoyable activity - although getting the old unions undone can be a bit of a pain if you are trying to save the likes of flex hoses and/or cylinder/calipers. I like my replacements to be exactly the right length with straight runs and nicely formed radius bends - Got to look neat when fitted. It's quite surprising the number of replaced pipes you see which fall well below the standards I force upon myself. I've seen pipes zig zagged to use up excess length. One actually coiled in a single loop! and pipes which are not even remotely following the required routing or clipped to axles/chassis. How do these aberrations get an MOT pass?
Thanks pooroldcodger, jackwhoo thanked for this post
Likes pooroldcodger, jackwhoo liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-03-2021   #11
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Stockport
Posts: 3,295
Thanks: 57
Trader Rating: 0
pooroldcodger has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Thank you. Now that we are seeing some signs of warmer weather I will get stuck in to this soon. Looking forward to getting the Panda on the road!
Unfortunately, or fortunately whichever way you look at this, our grown up son is always taking on new projects, like moving in to new business premises which need work doing on them, or his latest one, buying back the body shell of an S13 Nissan which he sold (as a rolling shell about 4 years ago). He has bought it back for nostalgic reasons but it requires quite a bit of welding, which "we" will end up doing! He assures me it will be worth the effort.The poor old Panda ends up at the back of the queue but I am determined to get there.
Thanks for the help
Better than being bored
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

pooroldcodger is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-03-2021   #12
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 342
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Apologies for the price quote above. Should have been 26.25 and not 6.25!
Thanks jackwhoo thanked for this post
Likes jackwhoo liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-03-2021   #13
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,272
Thanks: 311
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Apologies for the price quote above. Should have been 26.25 and not 6.25!
I did wonder (-;
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jackwhoo is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-03-2021   #14
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 342
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Just for everyone's info. When I was recently in Kenny Harrison's Fiat specialist garage they were renewing a lot of rusty brake pipes on the rear of an MOT failure. The car was up on a wheel free lift and I had a "nose" around it. (I seem to be tolerated in the workshop as long as I'm not getting in anyone's way) The new pipes were being beautifully fitted and He was flaring an end as I watched. The tool and it's box were on his workbench and I'm pretty sure it was one of these:https://www.frost.co.uk/brake-pipe-flaring-tool-set/

Thought it might be interesting to post it here as I see Frost claim it's usable on steel pipe! I think you can buy the Din and/or SAE tools separately which would, I assume, reduce the price if you only needed to do Din flares. Oh, there you go, I just found it:https://www.frost.co.uk/4-75-mm-din-flaring-tool/ Looks remarkably like the 26 tool? but maybe made of better quality materials? I'm only guessing at that because I have bought a couple of things from Frost. They are never "cheap" but the quality of the stuff they sell has never disappointed.
Thanks jackwhoo thanked for this post
Likes jackwhoo liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-03-2021   #15
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,272
Thanks: 311
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: brake lines

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Just for everyone's info. When I was recently in Kenny Harrison's Fiat specialist garage they were renewing a lot of rusty brake pipes on the rear of an MOT failure. The car was up on a wheel free lift and I had a "nose" around it. (I seem to be tolerated in the workshop as long as I'm not getting in anyone's way) The new pipes were being beautifully fitted and He was flaring an end as I watched. The tool and it's box were on his workbench and I'm pretty sure it was one of these:https://www.frost.co.uk/brake-pipe-flaring-tool-set/

Thought it might be interesting to post it here as I see Frost claim it's usable on steel pipe! I think you can buy the Din and/or SAE tools separately which would, I assume, reduce the price if you only needed to do Din flares. Oh, there you go, I just found it:https://www.frost.co.uk/4-75-mm-din-flaring-tool/ Looks remarkably like the 26 tool? but maybe made of better quality materials? I'm only guessing at that because I have bought a couple of things from Frost. They are never "cheap" but the quality of the stuff they sell has never disappointed.
Hi Jock,

When you make your own brake pipes using sae flares do you use new sae flare nuts?

The frost flaring kit looks grand.

Cheers
Jack
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jackwhoo is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) brake lines DazzaRS Abarth 500 4 22-02-2013 22:43
Brake lines... Ant Wells FIAT Boo Archives 4 21-07-2011 13:24
(T) brake lines jackf1 124 Spider (Classic) 3 25-04-2011 13:11
(T) Brake lines PNL Stilo 3 26-07-2006 14:59
Brake lines Nathan FIAT Boo Archives 6 31-01-2006 18:48