General Work Begins... Finally. 94 Panda CLX

Phiz · Mar 14, 2017

A bucket load of lacquer and it'll be bomb proof. I guess the grille is a nice small panel to work on paint skills, not as much effort to redo and no large areas where imperfections would look terrible!

Chaz does sound like a sweet project for someone. Hopefully someone on here will get on to it. Know what you mean though, obviously I've got my 4x2 project, which in a way is a much better car for what I want but the 4x4's were what drew me to Panda's when I was a kid and would be a great car to work on! One day but one day along way from now!

I've not actually watched the wheeler dealers episode, the amount of abuse it's had on here I might well do though

. What paint did they use which was so terrible??

Trouble with painting wheel nuts is they'll chip everytime you change a wheel? Chrome would look far too bling though... I guess for me this is so far down the list I'm not even on that page yet!

Re zinc primer I'm all over it, used about 3 cans on the axle, trouble is some can be mighty pricey and some have bugger all zinc in! I'm getting pretty well every removable part zinc electroplated and then powder coated, which is a better than factory finish, I got my rear bumper mounts back today and they look great and mighty durable! I'd not even begun to work out at what point I should apply stone chip, will sandwich between layers somewhere

.

Got some photo's of the work I did on Sunday on the rust in the rear inner wheel arch but I've hit the limit on my photo space on the forum?? Any idea how else I can get pictures up on here, or how I can increase my limit??

Will put up what I have managed to uploaded soon, typically takes me to just before the welding!

Phiz · Mar 14, 2017

So progress update.

As the car is now back on 4 wheels I got it in to the workshop to start welding up the rust in the driverside rear wheel arch. Once I had cleared the old seam sealer it was pretty clear moisture had got in and worked its way along the seam, though fortunatly not too far gone. There were two sections where it had completely rusted through, one right at the back and one where the seatbelt mounting is.

So that pic. was after I cut the rust out so here it is!!

And the other rusty patch...

so I made cardboard templates of the sections I needed to replace...

And at this point I seem to have hit my photo upload limit, got pictures of repair sections and the first bits welded in! Bugger:bang:

Phiz · Mar 15, 2017

So giving Google photos a try...

https://goo.gl/photos/WKyQ5EpmZjSbWjKv5

Hopefully the above will be the metal patches as I cut them initially. Fortunately they are all pretty flat other than one 90 degree fold and a bit of the boot floor needed shaping a touch. I did this initally by bending the metal over a piece of 8mm round bar and then... took it to the anvil and bashed it with a hammer a bit!

https://goo.gl/photos/JNVwcqAciyYhE6pJ8

Fingers crossed that is a picture of the first piece going in, which is the bit where a little shaping was required, I'm reasonably pleased with it, even if the welding is a little scrappy, bit of a contortion job getting the torch and filler wire in there. The second patch was a touch too small so didn't really help myself, having to add a bit more filler wire so it was also a bit bumpy, didn't take a photo until after I'd dressed it a bit though

.

https://goo.gl/photos/kbep7s9WuEWq8s5b9

A bit of seam sealer and a decent paint job and you'd never know I'd been there! The weld acros the wheel arch will be a little harder to hide but I'll tackle that when I come to it.

I'll also post a seperate request for advice regards the next bit along the seam, could do with some advice of the panda welding gurus!

So long for now.

Phiz

FDNY21 · Mar 15, 2017

Phiz said:
A bucket load of lacquer and it'll be bomb proof. I guess the grille is a nice small panel to work on paint skills, not as much effort to redo and no large areas where imperfections would look terrible!

Chaz does sound like a sweet project for someone. Hopefully someone on here will get on to it. Know what you mean though, obviously I've got my 4x2 project, which in a way is a much better car for what I want but the 4x4's were what drew me to Panda's when I was a kid and would be a great car to work on! One day but one day along way from now!

I've not actually watched the wheeler dealers episode, the amount of abuse it's had on here I might well do though. What paint did they use which was so terrible??

Trouble with painting wheel nuts is they'll chip everytime you change a wheel? Chrome would look far too bling though... I guess for me this is so far down the list I'm not even on that page yet!

Re zinc primer I'm all over it, used about 3 cans on the axle, trouble is some can be mighty pricey and some have bugger all zinc in! I'm getting pretty well every removable part zinc electroplated and then powder coated, which is a better than factory finish, I got my rear bumper mounts back today and they look great and mighty durable! I'd not even begun to work out at what point I should apply stone chip, will sandwich between layers somewhere.

Got some photo's of the work I did on Sunday on the rust in the rear inner wheel arch but I've hit the limit on my photo space on the forum?? Any idea how else I can get pictures up on here, or how I can increase my limit??

Will put up what I have managed to uploaded soon, typically takes me to just before the welding!

Even if it did just need more lacquer, it needs more paint now so it'll have to be completely re-done

A shame, but you're right, it is one of the easier panels to repaint. Unfortunately, it probably takes some of the most noticeable abuse from stone chips!

The CLX is a viable project for someone, I'd be willing to get it on the road if my cousin wants it, but that's still only a chance, no definite about it. Other than that, if nobody else is interested, there's no option but to part out

The 4x4 Panda was what drew me to Pandas as well, albeit a few years later than you no doubt

I don't know what paint they used on the Wheeler Dealers 4x4, but it looks like a thick bathroom paint type thing. Bet that will be fun to restore...

You're right, paint will probably come off immediately but I sprayed them black and I'm considering plastic caps as you saw on Pandino's thread.

Glad to hear you're using some zinc, you're doing really well on this project, looking forward to seeing more progress.

I believe if you donate a pound or more then you get access to unlimited photo space? You get some other perks for donating too, I've really been meaning to donate to the Forum. But, if you want to get images in like I do, then I save them to my PC, then press the paperclip button on the advanced editor (on the top row of the editor). Then press choose one choose file button, find the image you want, and attach. Wait for it to upload, then close the choose file button tab and press the little arrow next to the paperclip, then you can click the image name and it will embed into your post. If you don't embed but it's still attached, it'll still appear at the bottom of your post. Hope this helps!

Phiz · Mar 16, 2017

Fingers crossed on your cousin having it then, though if not at least parting it out will keep other Panda's going, rather than it being weighed in as scrap.

Yeah admittedly when I first got an interest in Pandas they were at that age where most were just old and unwanted but you'd see them about in the lakes etc. battle scarred and full of character! Time flys and middle age is looming

.

Re wheel nuts I know one of the chromers round here do a really tough black finish, though probably not for a few bolts (I'd imagine the minimum order would be pretty epic!).

We get loads of stuff electro-plated and powder coated for work, it's a very durable finish and is so much easier than cleaning and painting. Needless to say having been going to the platers for about 5 years I know them really well so all the Panda parts are being run through. Got my bumper brackets back the other day, will have to get a pic. on here, they are better than knew. Effectively everything is degreased, pickled in acid and then electro-plated with a decent amount of zinc before the powder is baked on at about 170 degrees. The chemicals they use are nuts

.

Thanks re pointers about pictures... there may or may not be pictures on this post... the ones I had to link to google for in the last post! Glad your following this FDNY21 or else this would basically be my personal diary!

So I'll get a load more welding done and then report back. heading towards the petrol tank now though so Guess I'll need to drop that? May slow me down a little initially!

Cheers

Phiz

Phiz · Apr 2, 2017

So been slogging away at this again and the welding is finally done. As I worked along the seam the rust just kept on going, only stopping about 1/2" from the where the front of the inner wheel arch heads into the side of the car!

So this is the little bit of plastic which I guess protects the filler pipe from rubbing on the seam of the wheel arch... that crusty brown stuff inside it is the wheel arch!

So the last bit was curved and folded... had a think about how best to replicate this and then cheated and made it in two parts welded together!

All welded up, finally no more daylight through the wheel arch!

Then got the seam sealer on... loads of it! Ended up with nearly as much on me, admittedly not the neatest of jobs but I'm happy it's all sealed up inside and out. Hopefully I'll get the primer on tomorrow, paint later in the week.

After all this I then got the petrol tank back on, hardest job so far

, spent about 2 hours getting the front bolt back on, ended up having to drop the axle to get at it, then I had to take one of the bolts out for the trailing arms (new that I put on a couple of weeks back) to get the axle back on, very annoying:bang:. On a positive I did get to put the new tank straps on I'd made with Jenny's help.

Remember that old sink?

Well Jenny cut the rim and bottom off it and then flattened the sides. Marked it for two 30mm wide strips and plasma cut them out.

I then used what was left of the old straps and measured up the tank to make the new straps. Only issue was the back end of the strap running along the length of the car, the sink was much more rigid than the original strap, which made it a little tricky to flex it right but it all worked out in the end!

Finally as a side note, not sure if I posted about this, I got the rear bumper mounts electroplated and powder coated, one of them had a bolt sheared off which I replaced earlier...

Think that's all I've been up to, so my list of tasks now are:
-Timing belt/tensioner/water pump
-Radiator
-Thermostat
-Oil and filters
-MOT!!!!
-Cosmetics from there :slayer:

Phiz.

Oh yeah what is this rusty resistor thing for? Is it knackered and does it matter

onemanmade · Apr 3, 2017

So i have just read through this log and i have to say very well done!

The resistor is for the headlights if memory serves, and no dont think it matters

The rust treatment i always did to my pandas (and am in the process of doing in the new one) is as follows:

Wire brush (sometimes sand or whatever depending on the area) then coat with Hammerite (smooth/hammered and colours are optional lol) then cover with Hammerite Underseal with Waxoyl built in. Not as messy as separate underseal and waxoyls. Then last step is comma wax seal aerosol spray into all the box sections and nooks and crannys. I repeated every summer with the underseal with waxoyl and wax seal box sections as a matter of course except where it was not needed via inspection and never had a problem with rust at all. And im n Scotland! Where the roads are coated in grit (read corrossive ****) for half the year.

Worth noting at this pòint that i used the brush on types back then but use the spray on types now, seems to be the same finish but 10x quicker, much less messy (products dripping down your sleeve while you brush yuck).

Sjvarley · Apr 3, 2017

Phiz said:
So been slogging away at this again and the welding is finally done. As I worked along the seam the rust just kept on going, only stopping about 1/2" from the where the front of the inner wheel arch heads into the side of the car!
View attachment 179098
So this is the little bit of plastic which I guess protects the filler pipe from rubbing on the seam of the wheel arch... that crusty brown stuff inside it is the wheel arch!

View attachment 179099
So the last bit was curved and folded... had a think about how best to replicate this and then cheated and made it in two parts welded together!

View attachment 179100
All welded up, finally no more daylight through the wheel arch!

View attachment 179101
Then got the seam sealer on... loads of it! Ended up with nearly as much on me, admittedly not the neatest of jobs but I'm happy it's all sealed up inside and out. Hopefully I'll get the primer on tomorrow, paint later in the week.

After all this I then got the petrol tank back on, hardest job so far, spent about 2 hours getting the front bolt back on, ended up having to drop the axle to get at it, then I had to take one of the bolts out for the trailing arms (new that I put on a couple of weeks back) to get the axle back on, very annoying:bang:. On a positive I did get to put the new tank straps on I'd made with Jenny's help.

Remember that old sink?
View attachment 179102

Well Jenny cut the rim and bottom off it and then flattened the sides. Marked it for two 30mm wide strips and plasma cut them out.
View attachment 179104

I then used what was left of the old straps and measured up the tank to make the new straps. Only issue was the back end of the strap running along the length of the car, the sink was much more rigid than the original strap, which made it a little tricky to flex it right but it all worked out in the end!
View attachment 179105

Finally as a side note, not sure if I posted about this, I got the rear bumper mounts electroplated and powder coated, one of them had a bolt sheared off which I replaced earlier...
View attachment 179107
View attachment 179103

Think that's all I've been up to, so my list of tasks now are:
-Timing belt/tensioner/water pump
-Radiator
-Thermostat
-Oil and filters
-MOT!!!!
-Cosmetics from there :slayer:

Phiz.

Oh yeah what is this rusty resistor thing for? Is it knackered and does it matter
View attachment 179106

The sink. I seriously considered getting 2 then welding them back to back to make a 4x4 stainless tank.
£47 each cut carve tank rust proof

Phiz · Apr 3, 2017

onemanmade said:
So i have just read through this log and i have to say very well done!

The resistor is for the headlights if memory serves, and no dont think it matters

Quick google confirmed it, cheers for that, looked a bit ropey and all the wires just disappeared into the loom!

The rust treatment i always did to my pandas (and am in the process of doing in the new one) is as follows:

Wire brush (sometimes sand or whatever depending on the area) then coat with Hammerite (smooth/hammered and colours are optional lol) then cover with Hammerite Underseal with Waxoyl built in. Not as messy as separate underseal and waxoyls. Then last step is comma wax seal aerosol spray into all the box sections and nooks and crannys. I repeated every summer with the underseal with waxoyl and wax seal box sections as a matter of course except where it was not needed via inspection and never had a problem with rust at all. And im n Scotland! Where the roads are coated in grit (read corrossive ****) for half the year.

Worth noting at this pòint that i used the brush on types back then but use the spray on types now, seems to be the same finish but 10x quicker, much less messy (products dripping down your sleeve while you brush yuck).

Thanks for the advice. I've got some stuff in for treating the rust after some research online generally and on here. Initially to get rid of the surface rust that is there I've got some bilt hamber deox gel, I've not used it on the car yet but I coated some vice grips I left out in the yard in it and it seems to be pretty powerfull stuff! I missed a bit and there is a rust tide mark

. I've put seam sealer and a zinc rich primer over my wheel arch repair so far, got standard halfords paint to go over that, then stone chip on the outside. I've also picked up some cavity wax (bilt hamber again) to do inside the chassis rails etc. Read very good reviews on it.

Once the car is done I intend to fully clean the underside, deox gel any rust (after wire brushing) before painting up as above and finally using a waxoil type underseal. One question though is how to get rid of the layers of old underseal/waxoil? Clearly it's done a good job over the years as the car is in pretty solid shape under there but are you just coating over the previous years each year? I guess I could leave any which is still good and solid but I don't want bits falling off. Clearly a good annual treatment as you are doing is working wonders, it's mad how much steel will rust just from humudity in the air, add salt to that and it's amazing cars last as long as they do.

Phiz · Apr 3, 2017

Sjvarley said:
The sink. I seriously considered getting 2 then welding them back to back to make a 4x4 stainless tank.
£47 each cut carve tank rust proof

Yeah offcuts of sinks make good straps/brackets generally, sometimes stainless door kickplates can make good mounting plates as well. I've got a mate who does kitchens so a ready supply of free sinks in that respect. A sink petrol tank could be good, though the weld would not be stainless so you'd still need to protect is somehow. Are the 4x4 tanks that hard to source? Could be worth welding up and then getting the inside enamelled. I've got a bike petrol tank done like that and it's still like new 5 years on (and it's a 95 Kawasaki which came with factory rust!).

onemanmade · Apr 3, 2017

Phiz said:
Thanks for the advice. I've got some stuff in for treating the rust after some research online generally and on here. Initially to get rid of the surface rust that is there I've got some bilt hamber deox gel, I've not used it on the car yet but I coated some vice grips I left out in the yard in it and it seems to be pretty powerfull stuff! I missed a bit and there is a rust tide mark. I've put seam sealer and a zinc rich primer over my wheel arch repair so far, got standard halfords paint to go over that, then stone chip on the outside. I've also picked up some cavity wax (bilt hamber again) to do inside the chassis rails etc. Read very good reviews on it.

Once the car is done I intend to fully clean the underside, deox gel any rust (after wire brushing) before painting up as above and finally using a waxoil type underseal. One question though is how to get rid of the layers of old underseal/waxoil? Clearly it's done a good job over the years as the car is in pretty solid shape under there but are you just coating over the previous years each year? I guess I could leave any which is still good and solid but I don't want bits falling off. Clearly a good annual treatment as you are doing is working wonders, it's mad how much steel will rust just from humudity in the air, add salt to that and it's amazing cars last as long as they do.

All sounds good to me

If there were really loose bits of underseal i would just scrape it off with wirebrushing, though generally i just reapply over after a check. If its done right there wont be any rust. Hammerite paint and underseal have rust neutralisers and inhibitors anyway if i understand correctly

Sjvarley · Apr 3, 2017

onemanmade said:
All sounds good to me

If there were really loose bits of underseal i would just scrape it off with wirebrushing, though generally i just reapply over after a check. If its done right there wont be any rust. Hammerite paint and underseal have rust neutralisers and inhibitors anyway if i understand correctly

Ok if it is hard to remove then it's good. A wire brush on the grinder will remove it to bare metal if wanted . We removed what was necessary. Then reapplied with the Shultz gun have you the panda on its roof
or side to Accses all areas ??

onemanmade · Apr 3, 2017

Sjvarley said:
Ok if it is hard to remove then it's good. A wire brush on the grinder will remove it to bare metal if wanted . We removed what was necessary. Then reapplied with the Shultz gun have you the panda on its roof
or side to Accses all areas ??

Me? No up on ramps and brutalising my neck muscles lol

Phiz · Apr 3, 2017

Yeah I'm on axle stands or drive on ramps only too I'm afraid. I can borrow the lift at the local garage on our industrial estate to free bolts where required etc. but they only have one ramp which is in near constant use so can't do a longer job such as this there.

Also had a mate round today who looked over the Panda and said it could be good make plastic wheel arch liners to box off the front area where the fuel filler pipe is. Said he has done his cars (mk1 polo and mk2 golf) and it keeps all the muck out and stops them rusting out. His cars are very solid underneath and used all year too... any thoughts?

onemanmade · Apr 3, 2017

Phiz said:
Yeah I'm on axle stands or drive on ramps only too I'm afraid. I can borrow the lift at the local garage on our industrial estate to free bolts where required etc. but they only have one ramp which is in near constant use so can't do a longer job such as this there.

Also had a mate round today who looked over the Panda and said it could be good make plastic wheel arch liners to box off the front area where the fuel filler pipe is. Said he has done his cars (mk1 polo and mk2 golf) and it keeps all the muck out and stops them rusting out. His cars are very solid underneath and used all year too... any thoughts?

#SoreNeckLoyal

Sjvarley · Apr 3, 2017

onemanmade said:
#SoreNeckLoyal

Ok we have some rims fitted with rotators so you can tip it on the side with an engine crane if you have one or can borrow Not using them at present

Then prop very handy were in Stoke on trent if needed

Sjvarley · Apr 3, 2017

Phiz said:
Yeah I'm on axle stands or drive on ramps only too I'm afraid. I can borrow the lift at the local garage on our industrial estate to free bolts where required etc. but they only have one ramp which is in near constant use so can't do a longer job such as this there.

Also had a mate round today who looked over the Panda and said it could be good make plastic wheel arch liners to box off the front area where the fuel filler pipe is. Said he has done his cars (mk1 polo and mk2 golf) and it keeps all the muck out and stops them rusting out. His cars are very solid underneath and used all year too... any thoughts?

Sisley 4x4 liners fit no probs

Does any one need to borrow these rotators

Phiz · Apr 3, 2017

Thanks for the offer, it does seem like a neat solution but I'll pass for the minute, in part as I've no engine crane but also not sure when I'll be undersealing the car, going to sort all the engine stuff first. Not too far away down in Stoke either I'm only in Manchester!

Will have to take a look at the Sisley wheel arch liners, if any are cheap or if I can copy them it might be a good move. Do you think they will offer enough additional protection to make them worth fitting, I guess some drilling/self tappers will be required?

Sjvarley · Apr 3, 2017

Phiz said:
Thanks for the offer, it does seem like a neat solution but I'll pass for the minute, in part as I've no engine crane but also not sure when I'll be undersealing the car, going to sort all the engine stuff first. Not too far away down in Stoke either I'm only in Manchester!

Will have to take a look at the Sisley wheel arch liners, if any are cheap or if I can copy them it might be a good move. Do you think they will offer enough additional protection to make them worth fitting, I guess some drilling/self tappers will be required?

Full protection It's some times the only part of a panda left
Re rollers. I am working in Manc in the next 2 weeks

onemanmade · Apr 4, 2017

The sisley liners "should" fit and stay without self tappers. Was going to check old photos later for you as i couldnt remember, but now that my memory has been jogged i removed mine on my sisley and broke them where the bolts were rusted. They fit with tension under the arch lip

Might go for a pair myself tbh, good wee add on

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