Technical panda 4x4 i.e.

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Technical panda 4x4 i.e.

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Nov 29, 2014
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i have a acquired a LHD 4x4 i.e. the engine is not getting fuel i know i will have to take the tank out check the fuel lift pump for starters. but i am considering replacing the spi with a carburettor as i have a distrust of antique electronics. does any one know.
1. what, if any, is the difference is between the fire and i.e. injection systems.
2 is there a cheap and easy way to achieve reliable operation of these electronic systems.
 
well the 999cc FIRE engine came with 3 fuelling systems.
the carb
the Bosch system
the Magneti Marelli system

you say yours is an I.E so its going to one of the 2 bottom ones.. the most easy way to tell is if it has a distributor.
if it DOES have a distributor, it will be running the Bosch injection system.

the best (almost flawless) injection system is the magneti marelli system as that does your fuel AND spark. (and was used right up to 2001 on the puntos, cinquecentos and pretty much every petrol fiat car)

the Bosch system is... temperamental. when it works it works good. when you get faults it needs a lot of playing with to get it right.

this system does not use many sensors. sounds good right? well yeah i guess less to go wrong however some other parts on the engine its self fail (nothing serious thankfully!)

to know when to inject fuel it uses the same pulse that is used to energise the coil. (the green wire coming from the distributor to the coil)

now these pandas have a thing called an ignition module screwed onto the back of the distributor (2 wires go into it from the coil) this module replaces the older points.
just like how points wear out over time.. guess what.. these modules are also well known to fail. when they fail they will give you no signal to the coil (giving no spark) and no signal to the ECU to tell the injector when to fire. replace it if you have no spark and no injecting.

another fault is caused by the vacuum advance (the round thing on the side of the distributor) failing causing the fuel to be injected at the wrong time
or the other thing that fails is the "idle control stepper motor" on the side of the throttle body. this thing also controls a thing called AFC (which stands for Auto Fuel Cutoff). this is a thing introduced to prevent catalysts from being poisoned and also really helps save fuel. on this idle control unit it will have a lobe that expands and contracts.. this locks up as the motor inside burns out. this is caused by a little button on the end of the lobe failing.. the button's job is to detect when you take your foot off the throttle when you say.. coast or slow down. at this point the fuel will completely stop injecting till the RPM's of the engine meet the tickover speed. (you can see how this helps save fuel)

if you are getting no fuel to the throttle body try this:
check the fuses.. there should be one or two under the bonnet (and the "Service" fuse inside the car) if i remember right. these can corrode stopping the in tank fuel pump getting any power. just replace the fuse and clean up the fuse carrier as best as you can (add a bit of copperslip on the fuse legs to help the connections conduct).
i cant remember if this has a relay for the fuel pump or not.. but if near the fuse under the bonnet there' a relay.. do the same thing for that.. the relay will just be a standard 4 or 5 pin relay so you can swap it out with the one for your electric rear window demister for testing.

if all of them have been tested it could well be a failed fuel pump.. Or the electrical connector on top of the fuel tank.

if you are getting the fuel pump to turn on when you first turn the ignition on (you should hear it prime for a few seconds then turn off) i would check for a spark.. if you got that i would then check the idle control stepper motor thingy on the throttle body.

lift the rubber boot up, spray it with a good amount of WD-40, get someone to crank the car over and with the throttle cable winder not resting on it, keep tapping the button to see if it frees up
id also check the vac advance thing on the distributor too as that may be the cause of the idle control messing up if it cant hold a vacuum.

----

if you have the magneti marelli system you have a few more sensors.

if you have no fuel pump sound, same as above^ only it will have 2 relays (one is for your fuel pump and the other is for the fuel injector) and i think 2 fuses near the battery (i think its there.. it will be under a squareish plastic cover that pulls off).


if you can hear the fuel pump:
check the crank sensor with a multi meter when the engine is being turned over on the starter.. (look on youtube of how to check one) they dont always fail.. but can.
oh and those relays check/clean/replace them.

that should be it.. you should be running after that.

if you want to convert back over to carb, be aware that if the car is registered after 1993 you need a catalyst.. and carbs are known to poison them. so you may get bad emissions if you convert to carb.

if you want to convert to carb you will need an electronic solenoid pump, an 8mm T bit for the fuel line, an intake manifold (with all bits) from a 999cc carbed panda, the throttle cable and mounting (that mounts to the intake manifold), a choke cable, an ignition live wire for the fuel cut off solenoid on the carb and of course a carburetor.
think thats everything.. oh the air filter box from a carbed panda too (just the bit that bolts to the top of the carb).

anything else just ask.. ill try to help where i can!

i converted my 1991 sisley to run using the bosch system.. but man it was not good.. so it went back to carb.
 
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cheers thanks for the through explanation i will have a more informed tinker when i get a moment. my i.e. has a distributor so its Bosch. up until now i have had the engine idling by feeding it propane with the pipe stuffed down the throttle body. cant hear the pump dispute shorting out the relay so the tank will have to come out. i tried connecting the propane (regulated to30mbar) to the injector but no result the i think the Pump gives closer to 1 bar. my donor panda has a carb. but it would be good to get them both running enough to check the condition of clutch gearbox and the like before starting on the big strip down. I have never had any complaints at the MOT centre here in N.Ireland about missing cats on various vehicles i have owned i hope it stays that way.
 
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