What am I up against in removing engine and gearbox from 4x4 Panda. Need to change flywheel as the teeth are becoming stripped at 110K miles. I also need to change the clutch plate(original), and the oil seals are leaking on drive shaft to hubs (seal replacement at same time). This is a one owner car since new and has served me well, and still plenty of life in her yet. All shell is virtually rust free, and original except for replacement of doors and cills a few years ago. Any advice on engine / gearbox removal??

tjs

Get yourself a Porter manual first - this covers the 4x4 ... the Haynes manual doesn't!

The manual says that the 4x4 wasn't introduced until 1986, and then only the FIRE engine in the UK. The original 965cc OHV engine didn't reach the UK officially, but there are probably some imports around ...

So, has it got the FIRE engine? If so, then you'll only be able to drop the engine/gearbox. If it's an earlier engine then you should be able to lift it out after disconnecting the usual bits.

Anyway, the manual gives full details.

Sorry - Lunch time over! (See announcements for the reason why)

Okay, evening session, giving the IT police at S*em*ns the big finger.

You don't need to remove the engine to get at the flywheel. Just drop the gearbox. As long as the balljoints haven't completely seized up the job isn't too bad but it's not one I would like to tackle again (it took me long enough last time) - while you're at it you can replace the clutch too. Mine was a QH item and cost around £50 inc. the dreaded VAT for the complete kit (clutch plate, cover and release bearing).

Best of luck!

STEVE - the NOS guzzling Panda owner and beagle fanatic ...

<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by steveyensen
Get yourself a Porter manual first - this covers the 4x4 ... the Haynes manual doesn't!

Okay, evening session, giving the IT police at S*em*ns the big finger.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Watch out for the stains, Steve [:0]

OK - Panda is not the FIRE type. Where do I purchase a Porter Manual??
Tom

tjs

OK, engine is not the FIRE engine type. Where would I be able to get hold of a Porter Manual??
Regards,
Tom

tjs

They sometimes are on

www.ebay.co.uk

ATM there are only Haynes there

Amazon have them. New, £12.99, used £6.50. They are actually Fiat approved!



http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1899238220/qid%3D1065987454/202-6580404-4123847


STEVE - the NOS guzzling Panda owner and beagle fanatic ...

<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John H
<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by steveyensen
Get yourself a Porter manual first - this covers the 4x4 ... the Haynes manual doesn't!

Okay, evening session, giving the IT police at S*em*ns the big finger.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Watch out for the stains, Steve [:0]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

LOL

STEVE - the NOS guzzling Panda owner and beagle fanatic ...

Hi

Bit surprised at this thread

Quote

The manual says that the 4x4 wasn't introduced until 1986, and then only the FIRE engine in the UK. The original 965cc OHV engine didn't reach the UK officially, but there are probably some imports around ...

Mine is February 1984 purchased from a dealer and has a FIRE engine. I am surprised that FIAT would approve a manual that is obviously wrong.

The heading says 1985 Panda 4X4, if this is true and it was new at that time it would have a FIRE engine unless it was very old stock

I am sure that the original non FIRE engine 4X4 Pandas were imported a good guide is the back seat as the original hammock style rear seat was replaced by a foldup rear seat in the FIRE engined Pandas. This seat folds down and then up and is fixed to the passenger seat with a length of cord. The front seats are also proper reclining seats rather than cloth covered frames.

The non FIRE panda 4X4 also had a slightly different lower bodystyle with the later bodies being smooth with a black plastic bumper along the side.



Stilo Active 1.2 5 Door/ Panda 4X4

He has a point there

Yeah I did BUT my wife has just pointed out that we bought it in 1986 not 1984 so please ignore the rubbish I posted.:I:I

However the non FIRE ones were imported in quite large numbers. I suspect the changeover was late 1985 early 1986.

Sorry



Stilo Active 1.2 5 Door/ Panda 4X4

I made the same mistake - thought I purchased new Panda 4x4 in 1985, but it was March 1986. Checking Reg docs, infers was a 'consessionare' import. So ties in with 965cc 4x4 being imported model. 1000cc models (UK) started in April 1986 (Porters).
Back to base,I purchased a Porter Manual from Amazon (very useful) - shows the 4x4 flywheel as a one piece item (non replaceable starter ring) - Anyone know where I could get hold of a flywheel as the teeth are becoming stripped on the starter ring and sometimes she engages and sometimes she does'nt. I examined the starter ring through the aperture when the starter motor was removed, and shows the starter ring has been partially stripped away (front to rear) approx 5mm deep for approx 150mm of the ring (as if the starter had been engaging during engine running). The starter pinion throws and engages successfully on the good bits of the the flywheel and starts ok, but if on starting up, the pinion hits the 'bad' sector, she just refuses to engage and just clicks away. Rocking the car in gear usully clears the problem, but useless if parked uphill, and getting worse by the day.

Anyone see any problem with removing the flywheel, patch welding up the stripped ring teeth ends (bits where the starter motor hits first), grinding and reshaping to match up existing - would this work - any comments?? Hate being beaten by a bit of metal! Note-I have not yet approached Fiat Dealer for availability of new part.

tjs

AIUI
a 4 cylinder 4 stroke engine will commonly stop in approximately 1 of 2 positions: due to not stopping at the top of a compression stroke you end up with the pistons all roughly halfway - either going up, or coming down, crank a 1/2 turn different.
As a consequence of this all the starter ring wear to do with the pinion engaging is in 2 relatively small sections on opposite sides.

If there is sufficient of the teeth left for cranking the Scrooge school of motoring would turn the flywheel a 1/4 turn (probably not possible due to "keying" onto the crank)

Regarding welding the existing teeth, considering the difficulty, and work, in getting access to the flywheel, and the odds of achieving the correct profile on all the teeth you repair, and making them strong enough.... well, I wouldn't bother.

If I was you I'd keep an eye open for one being broken, and get the starter motor to go with it.

You might even find the starter motor bearings, or pinion, are the cause of most of the problem in the first place...