well i need to re-silicone the cam gasket down. so while i am at it, i may as well replace the cam shaft and replace the thermostat.

if only i could find a way to permanently stop the damn cam cover gasket from leaking :/

hmm i guess i could replace the cam shaft oil seal too, as it did come out of a 90k mile engine. (if it was the MPI engine with low miles i would of had it )

well on a cento they always leak and the trick is only use a little sealant in the sharp corners of the camshaft bits (if that makes sense) and to not over torque the cam cover bolts, they only need to be a little over finger tight, i forget the actual torque setting but its really not very tight at all and most of the time thats why they leak - gasket over squished. And even though i know that it sometimes takes 3 or 4 attempts to make it not leak

Out of interest does anyone know if after doing this cam upgrade, would the engine still be non interference? Anyone done the maths on this?

yes still non-interference

I've just waded through most of the engine upgrade threads but come out with a question or two:


What's the 'ultimate' naturally aspirated spec? - Is it a 1.4 16v from a Mk2 Punto Sporting, for example?


I know there are more electrical challenges with later cars (fly by wire throttle) but earlier cars are getting more and more scarce and with higher mileage.


Has anyone done a full mk2 Punto tear down and install into a Panda before, or am I mad for even thinking about it?

not mad at all. i must admit that when the mk1 multi jet diesel engines become more popular in the scrap yard, i plan to rip one and all of its electrics out (or buy a whole car and do it) and stick it in a panda classic.

its not impossible to stick the mk2 engine in a panda classic but you'd have to do some mods.

things like a custom exhaust, intake, and fuel system. then you would have to play with the electronics. try to separate the original punto mk2 "engine running" wiring from the wiring that is used to power brake lights and wipers... it would make thigns more easy to "cut and splice" on the original car. in the sense of, cut a wire.. does the engine still run fine... yep.. guess we dont need that wire.. kinda thing.
intersections
i dont have a punto mk2 wiring schematic but im sure just by following that you would find what wires need to be kept over the useless stuff.


using all mk1 punto or brava/bravo tech just makes it all that much more easy.
i think theres a 1.4 16v engine running about that could be made to go into a panda.

hell if the 1.2 16v fits.. the 1.4 will!

the ultimate?? now there is an open ended question with huge debatable answers lol

If you mean keeping it to a fiat engine i would say possibly the mk2 punto HGT engine, also what is fitted in barchettas, is prob the ultimate NA upgrade. Not something i have ever seen swapped into other cars though. But it is a great engine.

End of the day you could argue positives and negatives for loads of engines..
The old lampedi 1.6 8v from early mk1 punto sportings (P90) would make a very nice panda i reckon.
The early 16v engines from mk1 punto, bravo/a are good engines also - they have cable throttles so makes thing easier but you could run the newer 16v engines off the older 16v ecu and use a throttle, they even rin the 1.4 16v pretty well but not spot on. They also had much livelier cams than the later engines.
Punto mk1 75 is one of my fave all round FIRE engines, not the most powerful but still nice simple engine with pretty simple electronics compared with newer stuff, good inlet design, lots of good low end grunt which makes for a great all round car - not the fastest but possibly one of the nicest to actually live with and drive.
Lastest 16v enignes are good also and will no doubt if used with their ecu's and all the bits be reliable a quick car - quite a few cento's have been done this way and use a fly-by-wire throttle etc but its the uncommon approach. Generally cento people use whichever engine and stick to either using the early ecu or aftermarket/piggyback ecu and keeping cable throttle.

My view on it would be to first off decide what it is the car is going to be.. daily with emphasis on fun, economy, reliability. track/hillclimb toy. weekend b-road blaster etc etc. Then from that i would decide on what engine best suited that. But really there is not one correct answer to your question, none are the be all end all best engine.

" the ultimate" is something like that, but in a panda shell nice sei with mitsu evo10 whistle .Still light and agile engine but fast enough to play with big boys

http://olx.pl/oferta/fiat-seicento-...li-swap-CID5-ID8qm4l.html#bd0695c5d7;promoted

Great, helpful input and sensible questions - thank you all.


I've given it some more thought about 'why?' and 'what for?' and the answer is "to make dragging a half Panda caravan to Italy and back a bit more comfortable."


So with that in mind I'm targeting about a doubling of the torque available - from 43 to 86 lbft from a swap..


And therefore I'm thinking an 85 16v engine (I think rated at 83lbft in a Punto) with a de-cated exhaust and a fair wind should see us laughing at Alpine gradients..


Maybe.

Bartpanda said:

" the ultimate" is something like that, but in a panda shell nice sei with mitsu evo10 whistle .Still light and agile engine but fast enough to play with big boys

http://olx.pl/oferta/fiat-seicento-...li-swap-CID5-ID8qm4l.html#bd0695c5d7;promoted

Click to expand...

True enough but the question was about NA engines - Don't get me started on boosted engines!!! I have a proper mad hatched idea for a Frankenstein turbo FIRE engine involving decking blocks and swapping cranks and all sorts.. I might build it one day.

2JZ engine swap would be amazing! 1000+bhp (much more per tonne)

Freebo said:

2JZ engine swap would be amazing! 1000+bhp (much more per tonne)

Click to expand...

Nice one Brian Earl Spilner :thumbup:

Bartpanda said:

866 cam Dragon

I use 1.2 8v in 4x4 60hp version but with carb and igniton from older "fire", the engine has 866 cam{stock on late 60 hp spi , 1997 to 99 I think, 176B4 code}.

The low range torque is what you seek to upgrade the 4x4 panda, high top end performance is not important, 4x4 can do 85 mph with original 1.0, but it is not pleasant ride, so no need to travel even faster imho.

1.4 8V grande punto gives only a minor, dissaponting gain in torque, but brnigs plenty other problems if one wants it as a whole engne wth ecu loom etc. I would use only bottom part of the engine as a base for mods wth 1.2 8v head, carb etc...

Click to expand...

dear friend i have the 2006 1.2 4x4 ...is anything that you sugest to give the car something more ? intake -exhaust-tb - reprogram ?