Hi all. I'm sure this has been discussed previously but I couldn't find the thread.

The 4x4 has a better cam, obviously for more torque. The same cam was fitted to the pandas in fizz trim BUT who knows the number that was stamped on the cam?

I'm looking to get a larger cam for the Sei and was thinking about putting the 1108 cam in the panda. It should have the same effect as the 4x4 but I wanted to see if they were the same.

there is a "4x4" stamped on a panda 4x4 cam, panda 4x4 cam has 8mm lift, duration {2/42/42/2}

There is some data about fire cams:

750 and 999 carbed also 999spi till 1994 : lift 7.1mm duration {1/19/29/-9}

999carbed in pandas 4x4 and most 1108 spi till 1994: - lift 8mm duration {2/42/42/2}

1108 1242 spi fiats from 1994: - lift 8.8mm duration{7/35/37/5}{eg cinq sporting , the "176" cam}

999 spi from 94: - lift 8mm duration {3/31/31/3}

panda 4x4 and 4x2 mpi from 2000: lift 8mm duration {7/35/37/5}

1242 mpi lift 9.4mm duration {7/41/43/5} - the "866" cam

The list is not full, because there werse other mixed applications for special markets like Switzerland{ poor cams but less poluting fumes}or I just could not find the correct data eg: for the early 1108 carbed engine. This is data for mk1 fire engine 1985-1999.

What he said.

Hmmm, me wonder if 999cc 4x4 cam could go in 750 :idea:

ofcourse every other cam is better than stock 750 with 7.1mm lift

Anyone got a 4x4 cam they want to sell me? :devil:

CLXCraig said:

The same cam was fitted to the pandas in fizz trim BUT who knows the number that was stamped on the cam?

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Not all of them as standard I don't think, only those lucky enough to be made when they didn't have any normal Cam's, just like our none mint Selecta.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Not all of them as standard I don't think, only those lucky enough to be made when they didn't have any normal Cam's, just like our none mint Selecta.

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I can confirm this, PTP doesnt have a 4 x 4 cam, I checked a couple months ago

Of course PTP is a parade, but Fizz and Parades were being made at roughly the same time I reckon

onemanmade said:

I can confirm this, PTP doesnt have a 4 x 4 cam, I checked a couple months ago

Of course PTP is a parade, but Fizz and Parades were being made at roughly the same time I reckon

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I think it was all Fizz models that had the 4x4 cam for some reason, nothing else did as far as I am aware, well apart from 4x4's obviously...

Didge3 said:

I think it was all Fizz models that had the 4x4 cam for some reason, nothing else did as far as I am aware, well apart from 4x4's obviously...

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There had been a discussion about it on the forum previously, and there was a school of thought that all pandas from roughly 92 onwards had the 4 x 4 cam fitted as standard, but in the parade brochure the HP was listed as 45. I thought if they were giving the cars an extra 5hp that would be listed as a selling point in the brochure. The curiosity got the better of me and I measured the valve clearances and inspected the camshaft itself. (It didnt have 4 x 4 stamped on it by the way as a point of interest) I was too curious about it and I had to test for myself

It would be interesting to see what other cars are fitted with the 4 x 4 cam though, maybe they fitted them to some models (seemingly including the fizz) but not to others?

sorry to dissapoint anyone, but the best idea if you are unsure is to check IMHO

onemanmade said:

There had been a discussion about it on the forum previously, and there was a school of thought that all pandas from roughly 92 onwards had the 4 x 4 cam fitted as standard, but in the parade brochure the HP was listed as 45. I thought if they were giving the cars an extra 5hp that would be listed as a selling point in the brochure. The curiosity got the better of me and I measured the valve clearances and inspected the camshaft itself. (It didnt have 4 x 4 stamped on it by the way as a point of interest) I was too curious about it and I had to test for myself

It would be interesting to see what other cars are fitted with the 4 x 4 cam though, maybe they fitted them to some models (seemingly including the fizz) but not to others?

sorry to dissapoint anyone, but the best idea if you are unsure is to check IMHO

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Who knows with Fiat, sometimes the things they do are at complete random. I have one of the last 750's with a 5 speed box as standard yet it has one of the early interiors...

I know lots of guys in the Cento section fit the 176 cam to their 1108's for more power, wonder if it'd be any use to us lot? Cheap upgrade surely?

Didge3 said:

Who knows with Fiat, sometimes the things they do are at complete random. I have one of the last 750's with a 5 speed box as standard yet it has one of the early interiors...

I know lots of guys in the Cento section fit the 176 cam to their 1108's for more power, wonder if it'd be any use to us lot? Cheap upgrade surely?

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Maybe but I would be wary incase that would make the panda engine "unsafe" (In terms of if the timing belt breaks)

I am not saying it would make it unsafe, but I don't know and that is the first thing I would try to find out.

But if it would work then could be a good idea

onemanmade said:

Maybe but I would be wary incase that would make the panda engine "unsafe" (In terms of if the timing belt breaks)

I am not saying it would make it unsafe, but I don't know and that is the first thing I would try to find out.

But if it would work then could be a good idea

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Anything is an improvement when you have 34hp
FIRE engines as you probably know are fairly bullet proof, lots of tuning info on the web for 999cc, 1108cc and 1242cc versions, revving to 9000rpm+ and producing crazy power on stock internals. No info on 750's, nobody seems to have bothered, I think I'd like to try and make a fast 750 one day...

Didge3 said:

Anything is an improvement when you have 34hp
FIRE engines as you probably know are fairly bullet proof, lots of tuning info on the web for 999cc, 1108cc and 1242cc versions, revving to 9000rpm+ and producing crazy power on stock internals. No info on 750's, nobody seems to have bothered, I think I'd like to try and make a fast 750 one day...

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Its a nice idea, in my personal opinion the 750 (I am including all pandas in this, but the 750 especially) is a charming car BECAUSE of its frugality and relatively low hp, not in spite of it! The panda is so charming generally because there are bigger more expensive to run and maintain cars, but none of them have the same cheeky appeal as a panda

But its your car mate, do what you want with it, and if you like it then be happy

onemanmade said:

Its a nice idea, in my personal opinion the 750 (I am including all pandas in this, but the 750 especially) is a charming car BECAUSE of its frugality and relatively low hp, not in spite of it! The panda is so charming generally because there are bigger more expensive to run and maintain cars, but none of them have the same cheeky appeal as a panda

But its your car mate, do what you want with it, and if you like it then be happy

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I love the 750 as it is for sure, its a silly little engine and somehow sips petrol despite being driven flat out most of the time but what with its short throw crank and little pistons it could have potential for some turbo power. I reckon 60hp could be had out of it on stock internals which is almost double stock, definitely not a speed daemon by any means but I'm intrigued to see what can be done with the engine...

Didge3 said:

I love the 750 as it is for sure, its a silly little engine and somehow sips petrol despite being driven flat out most of the time but what with its short throw crank and little pistons it could have potential for some turbo power. I reckon 60hp could be had out of it on stock internals which is almost double stock, definitely not a speed daemon by any means but I'm intrigued to see what can be done with the engine...

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Curiosity is perhaps the most human of traits and innovation cant be had without the desire to take something further than others do.

The differences between standard 999carbed fire with 45 hp and 50 hp panda 4x4 are not only the slightly better cam, but also raised CR.

Better cam in 750 fire without other mods will probably do nothing. 750 Carb has very "economical" settings, the ports in the head are very small, valves are smaller... etc.... Better and cheaper is to put 45hp 1.0 engine under the hood than try and tune 750.

Bartpanda said:

The differences between standard 999carbed fire with 45 hp and 50 hp panda 4x4 are not only the slightly better cam, but also raised CR.

Better cam in 750 fire without other mods will probably do nothing. 750 Carb has very "economical" settings, the ports in the head are very small, valves are smaller... etc.... Better and cheaper is to put 45hp 1.0 engine under the hood than try and tune 750.

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Next summer a 1242 p75 engine is going in, which will be 10x better and cheaper than tuning my 750. If I tune the 750 it'll be out of car and just for an experiment.

Bartpanda said:

The differences between standard 999carbed fire with 45 hp and 50 hp panda 4x4 are not only the slightly better cam, but also raised CR.

Better cam in 750 fire without other mods will probably do nothing. 750 Carb has very "economical" settings, the ports in the head are very small, valves are smaller... etc.... Better and cheaper is to put 45hp 1.0 engine under the hood than try and tune 750.

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What is CR?

onemanmade said:

What is CR?

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Compression Ratio