Technical T-Jet in a Panda?

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Technical T-Jet in a Panda?

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Hi All

Just contemplating a hypothetical situation ;)

Say you bought a complete t-jet engine and gearbox with all of the ancillaries still on the engine. But it came without any of the donor car's ECUs, wiring, keys etc. From an electrical perspective, what are the options to get the engine to fire up in a Panda/Y10? Is there an aftermarket solution, perhaps for the kit car market, that could be used? Does anyone know what electrical set up race cars that run t-jet engine use? I assume they don't have a full factory loom.

There are clearly mechanical and fabrication issues to consider but they look a bit more straight forward than the electrical side. Oh and upgrading brakes, suspension, strengthening the shell.........

Cheers

Dave
 
Hypothetical eh?!! ;)

Sorry don't know, but if you want to "hypothetically" go mad and turn it from 120bhp to an Abarth version at 150bhp I have the new turbo off my AGP sat in the garage (somewhere amongst all the other AGP bits) - taken off when it was Esseesse'd at delivery miles. Just a thought! :devil:
 
Ok, I'm ready to take this thread seriously now, especially as I have the same project on the back burner until these questions are answered.

Dave, hypothetically, which model in the Fiat range would you be taking the engine and gearbox from? I'm guessing a Punto, mine is from a 500.

I plan to use a normal Punto 5spd gearbox, 500 beam axle with disc brakes, front disc brakes from 500 also. Current target for all these goodies is my Seat Terra suitably modified to look more like a Panda.

As you say it's the electrics that are the biggest hurdle, I'm hoping to bump into a boffin that can work all that stuff out for me, maybe this thread will bring them to the surface.
 
Hypothetical eh?!! ;)

Sorry don't know, but if you want to "hypothetically" go mad and turn it from 120bhp to an Abarth version at 150bhp I have the new turbo off my AGP sat in the garage (somewhere amongst all the other AGP bits) - taken off when it was Esseesse'd at delivery miles. Just a thought! :devil:

I always thought that that was the strange thing about the Esseesse kit. You appear to get a different turbo with the AGP but just a remap with the A500.

I think the Abarth version would be a better starting point as I think it has different cams over the standard T-jets. But ultimately would 150-200 bhp be safe in a shell designed for 45-60 bhp without some major work? An obvious answer I know, so it's a full roll cage then.

Anyway, who won the FA Cup in 1985? :D
 
Ok, I'm ready to take this thread seriously now, especially as I have the same project on the back burner until these questions are answered.

Dave, hypothetically, which model in the Fiat range would you be taking the engine and gearbox from? I'm guessing a Punto, mine is from a 500.

I plan to use a normal Punto 5spd gearbox, 500 beam axle with disc brakes, front disc brakes from 500 also. Current target for all these goodies is my Seat Terra suitably modified to look more like a Panda.

As you say it's the electrics that are the biggest hurdle, I'm hoping to bump into a boffin that can work all that stuff out for me, maybe this thread will bring them to the surface.

There are obviously a few options but the Abarth 500 with matching 5 speed gearbox is what I would opt for. But I am not going to nick the one out of my daily driver:eek:
 
Ok, I'm ready to take this thread seriously now, especially as I have the same project on the back burner until these questions are answered.

Dave, hypothetically, which model in the Fiat range would you be taking the engine and gearbox from? I'm guessing a Punto, mine is from a 500.

I plan to use a normal Punto 5spd gearbox, 500 beam axle with disc brakes, front disc brakes from 500 also. Current target for all these goodies is my Seat Terra suitably modified to look more like a Panda.

As you say it's the electrics that are the biggest hurdle, I'm hoping to bump into a boffin that can work all that stuff out for me, maybe this thread will bring them to the surface.

And all in time for Panda camp where you're going to use it as a camper :idea:
 
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Personally I love the 1.2 panda/500 engine, one of those in a MK2 would be :eek:

Hypothetically though that TwinAir engine would have to be the one to fit :)

Probably easier to weld mk2 body panels on a 500 though ;)
 
But ultimately would 150-200 bhp be safe in a shell designed for 45-60 bhp without some major work? An obvious answer I know, so it's a full roll cage then.

Its highly unscientific but i think anything up to 150bhp will be fine with a strut brace.
 
Personally I love the 1.2 panda/500 engine, one of those in a MK2 would be :eek:

Hypothetically though that TwinAir engine would have to be the one to fit :)

Probably easier to weld mk2 body panels on a 500 though ;)
A TwinAir Panda (mk2) would be awesome, every time a little TA 500 goes past me I always turn, they just sound so much cooler.
 
You would be looking at using a standalone system like Megasquirt or Emerald I would think. I don't know much about them, but I'm presuming you would have a make a loom yourself (unless ready made ones are available) and you will have to get it mapped correctly for the engine, rather than just being able to fire it up and drive it straight away like you would with the factory ECU.
 
Right then, I have had a look at the standalone systems but unless you are doing something with a Vauxhall or Ford engine, it appears a bespoke setup would be needed. So would having a complete donor be the 'simplest' option?

If I happened to have a donor car I assume that the following would be needed
- Complete loom (interior and engine) including fuse box
- All the ECUs/nodes
- Keys and ignition barrel
- Throttle potentiometer
- Dials

Anything else spring to mind?

Cheers

Dave
 
Sticking plasters and a bottle of whisky, or whatever takes your fancy!
Then methanol + N02 followed by a whiff of laughing gas and a drag strip.
Dave
 
Mild thread hijack:

For quite a while I have been knocking about in fly-by-wire FIATs and although everyone has loved the cars, no-one had actually thought to do the conversions themselves, presuming it is impossible or expensive, even though I said it wasn't hard with a little knowledge and it wasn't expensive at all. I am still amazed at the amount of time, effort and money that goes into DIY or pro 3rd party fuelling solutions that end up not working at worst or mediocre at best.

The tide seems to have changed recently though. I have no less than 3 unanswered messages in my inbox right now asking me how to make their T-Jet work in a Panda/Uno/whatever. The questions asked are expansive and take a long time to answer properly. I don't have time to answer such large questions over and over again for each case so I have thought about doing a guide for quite a while. This would be an over-arching guide that would discuss modern FIAT electronics in general as they are all the same when it comes down to it. I could then put in detail for individual models. Not sure of the best format for such a thing. Obviously it would be a general guide, outside the Panda section.

For now I will answer the questions as they come here.

Right then, I have had a look at the standalone systems but unless you are doing something with a Vauxhall or Ford engine, it appears a bespoke setup would be needed. So would having a complete donor be the 'simplest' option?

If I happened to have a donor car I assume that the following would be needed
- Complete loom (interior and engine) including fuse box
- All the ECUs/nodes
- Keys and ignition barrel
- Throttle potentiometer
- Dials

Anything else spring to mind?

Cheers

Dave
There is little knowledge about FIATs in the tuning world for many reasons, so there aren't any off the shelf solutions as you say. I agree that a bespoke solution is expensive and difficult to investigate and set up for someone without a rolling road in their garage. There are a lot of DIY solutions and geek tools, but the investment of time is extreme.

So, from a donor car you need:
- Engine complete with all it' sensors and wiring loom
- Engine ECU
- Body ECU
- Throttle pedal
- Dials (but actually dials from other cars can be made to work)
- Aerial around ignition barrel (plastic coated ring -£10 from FIAT)
- Key (grip, not shaft required)

Wiring-wise, you leave the engine as it is with all the sensors attached and the plug coming from it. Otherwise, you can just chop the loom a foot (or more if you can) from every plug in the body ECU and the remaining plug on the engine ECU. You might think that keeping the loom in one piece is a priority, but you will use so few of the wires to make it work that having some of them connected straight off is not the advantage you think it is. The configuration in your project car will be different and much more simple. You only need 3 or 4 fuses, not the fusebox full the 500 will have.

You will need to rely on wiring diagrams found in the eLearn CDs, pin numbers written on plugs and colours of cable to guide you.

I think specifics about the wiring is something I should leave until a guide is written?
 
Mild thread hijack:

For quite a while I have been knocking about in fly-by-wire FIATs and although everyone has loved the cars, no-one had actually thought to do the conversions themselves, presuming it is impossible or expensive, even though I said it wasn't hard with a little knowledge and it wasn't expensive at all. I am still amazed at the amount of time, effort and money that goes into DIY or pro 3rd party fuelling solutions that end up not working at worst or mediocre at best.

The tide seems to have changed recently though. I have no less than 3 unanswered messages in my inbox right now asking me how to make their T-Jet work in a Panda/Uno/whatever. The questions asked are expansive and take a long time to answer properly. I don't have time to answer such large questions over and over again for each case so I have thought about doing a guide for quite a while. This would be an over-arching guide that would discuss modern FIAT electronics in general as they are all the same when it comes down to it. I could then put in detail for individual models. Not sure of the best format for such a thing. Obviously it would be a general guide, outside the Panda section.

For now I will answer the questions as they come here.


There is little knowledge about FIATs in the tuning world for many reasons, so there aren't any off the shelf solutions as you say. I agree that a bespoke solution is expensive and difficult to investigate and set up for someone without a rolling road in their garage. There are a lot of DIY solutions and geek tools, but the investment of time is extreme.

So, from a donor car you need:
- Engine complete with all it' sensors and wiring loom
- Engine ECU
- Body ECU
- Throttle pedal
- Dials (but actually dials from other cars can be made to work)
- Aerial around ignition barrel (plastic coated ring -£10 from FIAT)
- Key (grip, not shaft required)

Wiring-wise, you leave the engine as it is with all the sensors attached and the plug coming from it. Otherwise, you can just chop the loom a foot (or more if you can) from every plug in the body ECU and the remaining plug on the engine ECU. You might think that keeping the loom in one piece is a priority, but you will use so few of the wires to make it work that having some of them connected straight off is not the advantage you think it is. The configuration in your project car will be different and much more simple. You only need 3 or 4 fuses, not the fusebox full the 500 will have.

You will need to rely on wiring diagrams found in the eLearn CDs, pin numbers written on plugs and colours of cable to guide you.

I think specifics about the wiring is something I should leave until a guide is written?

Thanks Lewis. Extremely useful advice as always.

Has anyone looked at the semi auto gearbox on the Abarth 500? One of the options I have looked at comes with this rather than the 5 speed manual. Interested to find out if the dimensions make it harder or easier to fit into a Panda/ y10 engine bay.

All just hypothetically of course.....
 
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