oh yeah, totally get that - specs wise its hard to argue with for sure. i meant more i don't know if i like the character of the engine having not been in or driven a car with one and thus i don't have much of an opinion on whether i would want one personally. I myself would prob stick to the FIRE engined route but thats more to do with that i know the FIRE engines really well and as previously stated in this thread, not actually saving much weight by going twinair really

blu73 said:

oh yeah, totally get that - specs wise its hard to argue with for sure. i meant more i don't know if i like the character of the engine having not been in or driven a car with one and thus i don't have much of an opinion on whether i would want one personally. I myself would prob stick to the FIRE engined route but thats more to do with that i know the FIRE engines really well and as previously stated in this thread, not actually saving much weight by going twinair really

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If a 1.2ltr Euro-5 FIRE 69 hp engine could work (CAN-bus) in a 141A, i would go that route and put a Rotrex SC on it, making et least 120 hp and 170+ Nm of torque.
But my question would be, what gearbox do i need, the gearbox connected to the 69 hp FIRE engine or the one that is in the 141A. ??
I reckon there will be gearing differences compare to the different tire sizes between 141A and 169. ??

There is no real right answer to that really, there is alot of cars that could donor an engine and alot of different ratios.

I'm currently dropping a mk1 punto 75 engine (176A8) in my panda, and think i am just going to leave the gearbox it has in it in there for now. It might drive better in certain conditions with a different box but gonna see what it drives like with the panda 750 box on it first, can always change it down the line, no biggy.

Greetings, Citizens.

Well I can chip in here, having had a couple of 141 Pandas and currently driving a TA Ypsilon

I've driven a couple of 1.2 FIRE engined 500s and they're flat flat flat. I remember a somewhat hairy journey from Venice to Brescia, not a car you want to take on the Autostrada!

The Ypsilon on the other hand is punchy and plenty fast enough to hold its own - it cruises happily 4 up at 80+ on the motorway, with power in reserve. It's got long legs too, so it's not revving its nuts off either.

The main thing about the TA is the torque - bags and bags of midrange grunt. It's not a particularly high revving engine - it's all over by 6000 rpm and TBH there's not much point in going much over 5. Better to grab another gear and get back into all that lovely torque :yum:

I personally reckon a 141 with a twinair would be an absolute hoot - the light weight combined with that grunt would make for a right Q car. Quick enough to embarass a few Barrys away from the lights, that's for sure. Somebody do it!

Cheers,

Plug

Would love to see such a project, but it won't be easy. The transmission needs to be swapped as well and the brakes will require a serious upgrade.
Wiring harness will be the most difficult part. The modern TwinAir cars have electronics that go as far as into the seat belts. Engine will not run unless it's all connected. You'll need to swap airbags, seat belts, anti theft stuff etc.
Besides: 85 hp in a Fiat 141 will rip it apart: it's twice the amount of hp of the standard car. My guess is that the non turbo 65 hp TwinAir suits best.

Bye,

Max.

85hp is not alot, will be fine... and as i said previous, the only sensible way to do this would be aftermarket management so you could avoid all that body loom and canbus stuff.

Max Laadvermogen said:

85 hp in a Fiat 141 will rip it apart

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Pretty certain a member lewey from a while ago was running over 100hp with no issues in a 141. The last of the Panda's made by Fiat themselves had 55hp so an extra 30 isn't going to tear it apart...

Personally after owning many 141's and 2 twin air pandas 2 and 4 wd, I think the twin air engine would be a match made in heaven in either a 2 or 4 wd 141.

I'm waiting for a suitable donor to drop into price range which will be a few years yet.

I don't think there would be a quicker off the line car!

I would give the 85 TA engine a remap for this kind of project, because the engine will run so much smoother with it.
Some Multipla front brakes would work, but then the car need 15" wheels.

Btw, remember this one with 130 hp Uno turbo engine.

Bit rough having to take the engine out to change the spark plugs, or employing a child to do it.

Dave

pandamaniac said:

Bit rough having to take the engine out to change the spark plugs, or employing a child to do it.

Dave

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Do you think the engine would last that long?

The engine getting a overhaul already.

blu73 said:

i wouldn't worry too much about the electric side of things tbh, it would only be hard if you really really wanted to use the factory ecu cause it will be canbus and throw a wobbly if all the different body ecus aren't connected and will need fly-by-wire pedal. Sure there is plenty of aftermarket ecus that could run the engine, and to run an engine, even a modern injected one, you don't really need that many wires. Would need to get a throttle body with a cable fit but that could be done with just an adaptor plate..
I still have not been in a car with a twin-air so i don't really have a strong opinion on whether this is a good or a bad idea.. I still really want to drop panda cross 1.3mjet in a classic 4x4 myself - maybe one day.

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Here in the Netherland there is also a "NON" turbo TwinAir engine available, it would probably make things a lot easier te install without the Turbo.
But on the other hand a lot less fun to drive.

Mmmm, I don't think it would make it much harder - turbos are not as complicated as people like to think, so long as the original turbo and manifolds etc were used it wouldn't cost much and at the end of the day you likely going to end up with aftermarket engine management as i said before so that will need tuning which would cost the same as a turbo or NA motor.
Side note: i never knew there was a na twin-air!! What are the specs on these, how much power do they make etc?

The N/A Twinair makes about the same power and torque as a P60 but makes it much higher up in the range so needs to be rung out even more.

food for thought - :chin:
project TA engine - circa £5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-500-...697384?hash=item489f444768:g:hs8AAOSwz71ZW4fr

Charlie

blu73 said:

Mmmm, I don't think it would make it much harder - turbos are not as complicated as people like to think, so long as the original turbo and manifolds etc were used it wouldn't cost much and at the end of the day you likely going to end up with aftermarket engine management as i said before so that will need tuning which would cost the same as a turbo or NA motor.
Side note: i never knew there was a na twin-air!! What are the specs on these, how much power do they make etc?

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The NA TwinAir has 964cc instead of the 875cc the Turbo has.
65 hp and 88 Nm torque, after a remap they would have 85 hp and 135 Nm torque.

Still no TwinAir 141A projects. ??

Thinking about a 141 panda ,Alfa mito powered beast. 154HP
Turbo. It would have to full time 4 wheel drive though.