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Old 24-12-2014   #16
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Probably easier to go the bespoke ECU route unless the valve timing side is too difficult to replicate.
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Old 07-08-2016   #17
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Still could be interesting when/if the electrical side of things could be tackled.
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Old 07-08-2016   #18
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Still could be interesting when/if the electrical side of things could be tackled.
engine prices have dropped significantly - due to supply

we had a new member who was looking at using the uniair injection in a single cylinder race engine project ( sidecarcross)

so a basic plug and play cannot be too far away ,

interesting what @lewey said about the weight being the same as a 1242 - 8 Valve

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Old 08-08-2016   #19
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

i wouldn't worry too much about the electric side of things tbh, it would only be hard if you really really wanted to use the factory ecu cause it will be canbus and throw a wobbly if all the different body ecus aren't connected and will need fly-by-wire pedal. Sure there is plenty of aftermarket ecus that could run the engine, and to run an engine, even a modern injected one, you don't really need that many wires. Would need to get a throttle body with a cable fit but that could be done with just an adaptor plate..
I still have not been in a car with a twin-air so i don't really have a strong opinion on whether this is a good or a bad idea.. I still really want to drop panda cross 1.3mjet in a classic 4x4 myself - maybe one day.
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Old 08-08-2016   #20
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
i wouldn't worry too much about the electric side of things tbh, it would only be hard if you really really wanted to use the factory ecu cause it will be canbus and throw a wobbly if all the different body ecus aren't connected and will need fly-by-wire pedal. Sure there is plenty of aftermarket ecus that could run the engine, and to run an engine, even a modern injected one, you don't really need that many wires. Would need to get a throttle body with a cable fit but that could be done with just an adaptor plate..
I still have not been in a car with a twin-air so i don't really have a strong opinion on whether this is a good or a bad idea.. I still really want to drop panda cross 1.3mjet in a classic 4x4 myself - maybe one day.
A remapped 85 TwinAir Turbo have 103 hp and 170+ Nm of torque, i think it will make a Panda 141A a lot of fun to drive.
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Old 08-08-2016   #21
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

oh yeah, totally get that - specs wise its hard to argue with for sure. i meant more i don't know if i like the character of the engine having not been in or driven a car with one and thus i don't have much of an opinion on whether i would want one personally. I myself would prob stick to the FIRE engined route but thats more to do with that i know the FIRE engines really well and as previously stated in this thread, not actually saving much weight by going twinair really
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Old 08-08-2016   #22
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
oh yeah, totally get that - specs wise its hard to argue with for sure. i meant more i don't know if i like the character of the engine having not been in or driven a car with one and thus i don't have much of an opinion on whether i would want one personally. I myself would prob stick to the FIRE engined route but thats more to do with that i know the FIRE engines really well and as previously stated in this thread, not actually saving much weight by going twinair really
If a 1.2ltr Euro-5 FIRE 69 hp engine could work (CAN-bus) in a 141A, i would go that route and put a Rotrex SC on it, making et least 120 hp and 170+ Nm of torque.
But my question would be, what gearbox do i need, the gearbox connected to the 69 hp FIRE engine or the one that is in the 141A. ??
I reckon there will be gearing differences compare to the different tire sizes between 141A and 169. ??
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Old 09-08-2016   #23
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

There is no real right answer to that really, there is alot of cars that could donor an engine and alot of different ratios.

I'm currently dropping a mk1 punto 75 engine (176A8) in my panda, and think i am just going to leave the gearbox it has in it in there for now. It might drive better in certain conditions with a different box but gonna see what it drives like with the panda 750 box on it first, can always change it down the line, no biggy.
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Old 09-08-2016   #24
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Greetings, Citizens.

Well I can chip in here, having had a couple of 141 Pandas and currently driving a TA Ypsilon

I've driven a couple of 1.2 FIRE engined 500s and they're flat flat flat. I remember a somewhat hairy journey from Venice to Brescia, not a car you want to take on the Autostrada!

The Ypsilon on the other hand is punchy and plenty fast enough to hold its own - it cruises happily 4 up at 80+ on the motorway, with power in reserve. It's got long legs too, so it's not revving its nuts off either.

The main thing about the TA is the torque - bags and bags of midrange grunt. It's not a particularly high revving engine - it's all over by 6000 rpm and TBH there's not much point in going much over 5. Better to grab another gear and get back into all that lovely torque

I personally reckon a 141 with a twinair would be an absolute hoot - the light weight combined with that grunt would make for a right Q car. Quick enough to embarass a few Barrys away from the lights, that's for sure. Somebody do it!

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Old 12-08-2016   #25
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Would love to see such a project, but it won't be easy. The transmission needs to be swapped as well and the brakes will require a serious upgrade.
Wiring harness will be the most difficult part. The modern TwinAir cars have electronics that go as far as into the seat belts. Engine will not run unless it's all connected. You'll need to swap airbags, seat belts, anti theft stuff etc.
Besides: 85 hp in a Fiat 141 will rip it apart: it's twice the amount of hp of the standard car. My guess is that the non turbo 65 hp TwinAir suits best.

Bye,

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Old 12-08-2016   #26
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

85hp is not alot, will be fine... and as i said previous, the only sensible way to do this would be aftermarket management so you could avoid all that body loom and canbus stuff.
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Old 13-08-2016   #27
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by Max Laadvermogen View Post
85 hp in a Fiat 141 will rip it apart
Pretty certain a member lewey from a while ago was running over 100hp with no issues in a 141. The last of the Panda's made by Fiat themselves had 55hp so an extra 30 isn't going to tear it apart...
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Old 14-08-2016   #28
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Personally after owning many 141's and 2 twin air pandas 2 and 4 wd, I think the twin air engine would be a match made in heaven in either a 2 or 4 wd 141.

I'm waiting for a suitable donor to drop into price range which will be a few years yet.

I don't think there would be a quicker off the line car!
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Old 15-08-2016   #29
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

I would give the 85 TA engine a remap for this kind of project, because the engine will run so much smoother with it.
Some Multipla front brakes would work, but then the car need 15" wheels.

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Old 15-08-2016   #30
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Btw, remember this one with 130 hp Uno turbo engine.





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