Hello to everyone!

I am new at this forum, but I decided to skip the introduction at the other forum section and start right over here.

I live in Southeastern Europe. I have been quite interested in acquiring an old Panda 4x4 since the end of the last autumn. While I am searching for a reasonably priced Panda 4x4 in a good condition, I am trying to get some useful information about those cars.

I got a lot of useful information about Pandas in local/regional forums, but my web searches have constantly ended at this web site. So I suppose that you people here are one of the most knowledgeable communities regarding old Fiats.

If I am informed properly, Fiat had a different policy for selling Pandas in UK market than in the rest of Europe. I mean, the car editions were slightly different (I haven't seen a Sisley anywhere outside UK), and they stopped selling them in UK in 1996, despite selling them elsewhere until 2000, somewhere even until 2003. Correct?


To get to the point:

I would appreciate to get some good advices on important things to pay attention to when buying a second-hand Panda 4x4, and how to diagnose/test for certain problems in these vehicles.

Also, I would appreciate to get advices on which factory edition of Panda 4x4 are the best to look for (mostly regarding the engine type - carb/SPI/MPI, model year, interior/exterior trim and features, etc.) - if the "rules" for UK Pandas can be applied to European ones.

My prime criteria is to get a reliable vehicle - I live in a mountainous region with some very rugged, scarcely populated areas, so I certainly would not want to have a car failure in the middle of a forsaken land. That is why I am generally after Pandas made between year 2000 and 2003 (and they will remain good sellers later on). I would possibly consider an older vehicle (up to year 1996) if its condition and factory edition are truly exceptionally good.

What do you think about all this?

Regarding the engine types,
can somebody confirm if my findings are correct (and/or add more useful comparison information to my findings :

1.) All Pandas made since the 1990s use FIRE engines. Typical engine sizes were 769 cm3, 999 cm3 and 1108 cm3. Pandas 4x4 used either 999 cm3 or 1108 cm3.

2.) There were three engine types used in Pandas made since the 1990s (chronologically): carburetted, single-point injected (SPI) and multi-point injected (MPI). All three types were made in all the above mentioned sizes.

3.) SPI engines were sold simultaneously with carburetted engines for some time, and MPI engines were sold simultaneously with SPI engines for some time.

4.) SPI is better than carburetor regarding reliability ("MTBF" rating), fuel efficiency and power efficiency. Carburetor is better than SPI regarding maintenance complexity.

5.) MPI is better than SPI regarding spare part availability (MPI 1.1l engine is still in active production for Panda Mk2 Active models - meaning that its spare parts should be readily available). SPI is better than MPI regarding maintenance complexity and fuel efficiency.


One final question:

Can somebody tell me which engine types are these, and which one is the best:
187A1.000
176B2.000
156A3.000

Or some other engine code might be better?

Welcome....

Any older car will have age related problems now and in the future. The pandas in Europe will have gone up to 2000 and include injection engines. Here in the uk we have the carb version.

A lot of us use our cars daily but I think this maybe happening less and less.

Most spare parts on 4x4's are more expensive and some difficult to get in the uk.

Why not consider a two wheel drive?? Just as rugged and very capable off road. Plus cheaper to buy and maintain.

There is lots of information on here about running a 4x4 and any problems. Pull up a chair...grab a beer and try the search button for lots of stories.

If I lived where you are my personal choice would be a Toyota 4x4. In the uk a Toyota surf 3ltr diesel is cheaper than a panda 4x4 and to be honest if I had to drive around where you are everyday the Toyota would be for me. The reason for this could be because I own one.

I don't really want to put you off panda ownership...I love them.

Happy searching....

Bosanek said:

Regarding the engine types,
can somebody confirm if my findings are correct (and/or add more useful comparison information to my findings :

1.) All Pandas made since the 1990s use FIRE engines. Typical engine sizes were 769 cm3, 999 cm3 and 1108 cm3. Pandas 4x4 used either 999 cm3 or 1108 cm3.

the FIRE engine was use from 1986 onwards I believe. In the uk the 769cc was only ever a carbed engine. 999 & 1108cc were SPi from 1992> and the 999cc 4x4s only ever carbed and made in the UK until 92.

2.) There were three engine types used in Pandas made since the 1990s (chronologically): carburetted, single-point injected (SPI) and multi-point injected (MPI). All three types were made in all the above mentioned sizes.

As above in the UK it was only ever carbed or SPi engines, and the carbed were 769cc or 999cc, and SPi 999 & 1108cc. The 1108cc was only ever fitted to the Selecta in the UK though.

3.) SPI engines were sold simultaneously with carburetted engines for some time, and MPI engines were sold simultaneously with SPI engines for some time.

Not in the UK

4.) SPI is better than carburetor regarding reliability ("MTBF" rating), fuel efficiency and power efficiency. Carburetor is better than SPI regarding maintenance complexity.

SPi better for reliability, not nessecarily fuel economy and the carb is better for character.

5.) MPI is better than SPI regarding spare part availability (MPI 1.1l engine is still in active production for Panda Mk2 Active models - meaning that its spare parts should be readily available). SPI is better than MPI regarding maintenance complexity and fuel efficiency.

the mk2 you refer to is actually the mk3!!

Click to expand...

Above is my view on it, and the Sisley was sold over seas aswell

Hi and welcome :wave:,

If Carlsberg set up a Forum for Fiats it would probably look exactly like this one . If you don't get the same adverts for that beer you're going to wonder what on earth I'm talking about .

All your research so far seems pretty sound to me. As far as engines go I would say the 1108cc mpi would be best for all the reasons you mentioned, but don't discount the others. Far more important when looking for a 4x4 is the condition of the bodywork and drivetrain. Parts for the engines will be around for a long time but that's not necessarily the case for the gearbox and drivetrain. Cars over here suffer from rust quite easily, if that's true for you too it should be high on your list of priorities to find as rust free a Panda as you can, if it has a good gearbox ( no bearing noise and good syncromesh ), rear axle and propshaft/driveshafts too, all the better.

Everything else is pretty straightforward to deal with, that's why we love them.

What is the supply of Pandas like in your country? I am guessing you won't have many to choose from.

Hi Bosanek!

IMHO the only source of 4x4's made between 2000 and 2003 (the best, with 1.1 engine and without rust) will be Italy, not far from BiH. But they are costly there. Fiat stopped selling Pandas in most european countries in 1996. You should contact with italian 4x4 club: http://www.panda4x4.info/forum/index.asp. IMO they are the best

Sutjeska

sutjeska said:

Hi Bosanek!

You should contact with italian 4x4 club: http://www.panda4x4.info/forum/index.asp. IMO they are the best

Sutjeska

Click to expand...

Oh no they're not

Bosanek said:

Can somebody tell me which engine types are these, and which one is the best:
187A1.000
176B2.000
156A3.000

Or some other engine code might be better?

Click to expand...

I think that 156A3.000 is the 999cc carb 49/50bhp from the 4x4.
176B2.000 should be the 1108cc i.e. with 54bhp.
187A1.000 is a bit new for me(!) but I suspect it's again a 54bhp 1100cc from the leter Seicento/Mk3 Panda?

156A3 is the simplest - no fuel injection to worry about, which makes it my choice, but the later ones are theoretically better..........

Gavin.

183 does ring a bell from the 2 1108cc mk3's we've got.