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Old 05-08-2012   #16
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Ah ok, this does change things and I am watching with even greater interest.
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Old 06-08-2012   #17
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Quote Originally Posted by totnesmonster View Post
Nope, the 4x4 take off is after the final drive, so the rear wheels will always go the same speed as the fronts regardless of the final drive ratio(I didn't realise this at first). The spiral bevel gear that takes drive to the propshaft hasn't been changed. Anyway the 3.78 final drive is now fitted to the 4x4 diff ok having drilled the holes at work, it's hardened steel so needed a carbide drill bit. Just need to get the rest back in now, a couple of new bearings and shove it in the car sometime.
I read your earlier post more carefully and realise that you had covered this actually. I get it now! Good luck.
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Old 08-08-2012   #18
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

I started this thread a while ago but have been away a while. I have done the gear box mod using Cinq main shaft & crown wheel, going from 4x4 60/11 to Cing 57/14. I works. trouble was with my attempt is that for some unconnected reason the selection od 1st /2nd was nigh on impossible so I put my standard box back in. I can however verify that I have driven the 4x4 with Cinq rations and it does appears to work.
I've recently tacked down some new synchro rings so I'll rebuild another box this winter. Lets see what happens.
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Old 08-08-2012   #19
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Good to hear you've had at least some success with this! My gearbox is all back together now, all gears seem to select fine so fingers crossed....

With the 15/58 final drive and 0.837 5th gear i should be seeing about 19.8 mph/1000 rpm. Can't see that I will need it at the moment, and it would probably make the gearing too high but I also have 0.780 and 0.731 ratio 5th gears to make the gearing longer still if needed.

Out of interest where have you got the synchro rings from? Mine are a little worn, but OK for now, might be worth getting some in. As far as I can work out on eper, just the 3rd and 4th rings and corresponding collar look like they will total over 100!
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Old 09-08-2012   #20
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

There is a little place near me that is one of those old fashioned 100 year old chipbord counter/dexion racking/greasy cardboard/curling vinyl on floor (& walls) kinda places that has probably got everything but no idea where abouts. I got a ns panda door skin for 25. he sold me a bum track rod end a couple of weeks ago & let me have the synchro rings "to try". If they are right I'll give him 20 each.
My road ratio box changed fine on the bench. All slotted in nicely, but when in the car.........nada. Ended up doing 3 gearbox "rotations" in 1 weekend. 4 hours is my gold medal!
When it comes to bearings I changed mine using skf quality bearings from the internet. 3 of them cost no more that 5 each. The only one that is a Fiat only part is the roller bearing on the inboard end of main shaft. I paid 38 from Fiat for this. Running them now & all fine. No one needs to pay oem prices for bearings. Just look at the numbering on the bearing & do a search. Im restoring and old AP50 Suzuki & got all the bearings for about a third of the Suzuki price.
Back to Panda box - could I use Cinq 5th gear cogs to bring the ration back down a bit?
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Old 11-08-2012   #21
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

i am watching this thread with heightened interest. though i dont think i can offer you any help

i wanted to turn my 5th gear into an "over drive" gear for high speed roads. i had to change the gearbox in my sisley as it was mostly eaten up. however i did find out that you could get access to 5th while the box was still on the car (by taking the end cap off)

i'd still like to know if the cinqs 5th gear is a bit taller than the pandas.
i have saved what was left of my 5th gears to one day compare them to ones in a cinqs box (when i have the car on the road and i am able to go to the scrap yard)

see i didnt want to go down the route of messing around with the diff, i just wanted to change the final gear.

i still have a lot of my original gearbox in a pile in the back garden.. lol (saved the diff though, was in real good condition)
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Old 22-08-2012   #22
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Right, quick update but have now got the gearbox back in and all back together, and it seems to work pretty well so far, touch wood, much higher gearing than before (I now actually need to use 1st to pull away!). I am currently running with slightly larger than standard tyres though. 4x4 still works fine (though no crawler gear, 1st is OK though) gearchange is actually the best I've had on a Panda at the moment and all running nice and quiet, just hope it all stays that way!

I'll report back again soon, if I'm feeling keen I might even do a guide.....!
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Old 22-08-2012   #23
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

If it works, just duplicate the box a few times and we'll all have one!
Direct exchange @ 50 a pop
I was charged 500 for a rebuild on my box and my only complaint has always been the ratios on the 4x4 are too low. ( Except in snow)
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Old 23-08-2012   #24
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

i wonder if bits from the 6 speed could be fitted into the 5 speed 4x4 box... if that could be done could custom gears for 6th be made as an over drive?

i have never seen the 6 speed box though but i know its almost the same as the 5 speed but just a little longer. hmm i guess the selector would have to be changed too as on the 5 speed 5 and reverse share the same movement on a 6 speed i guess the reverse is a separate movement.

wonder if it could be done though......
thats one for the thought of the day thread.. heh
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Old 18-05-2013   #25
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

any update on this?
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Old 26-11-2013   #26
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Man View Post

i wanted to turn my 5th gear into an "over drive" gear for high speed roads. i had to change the gearbox in my sisley as it was mostly eaten up. however i did find out that you could get access to 5th while the box was still on the car (by taking the end cap off).......
Hi,
Could you expand a bit on this please. Is the bearing also accessible for replacement here as I have a 5th gear whine, in an otherwise very good box. I saw similar references in one of the input shaft bearing threads but cant seem to find it now.
Vehicle is ca. 2000 Trekking, 1.1 SPI

regards,

nick
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Old 26-11-2013   #27
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Quote Originally Posted by olNick View Post
Hi,
Could you expand a bit on this please. Is the bearing also accessible for replacement here as I have a 5th gear whine, in an otherwise very good box. I saw similar references in one of the input shaft bearing threads but cant seem to find it now.
Vehicle is ca. 2000 Trekking, 1.1 SPI

regards,

nick

hey Nick, yeah if you take off the wheel on the gearbox side you will see the end of the gearbox sticking out of the wheel arch. you can take this cap off and get assess to 5th as it is right at the end of the gearbox. you dont have to worry about emptying all the gearbox oil as that will be down in the diff and not up this high so none will spill out when you take the cover off.

you will probably find that your 5th has some chipped teeth causing the whine. take pictures as you do it though, show the word!
sadly i did not do any videos on the gearbox. i have a few but they do not show the bit i was referring to.

Check out videos 17,18 and 19. should help you.. maybe.


hope this helps. the chewed up gear i show you in video 18 is 5th!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #28
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Re: 4x4 Gearbox internals.

Quote Originally Posted by totnesmonster View Post
Nope, the 4x4 take off is after the final drive, so the rear wheels will always go the same speed as the fronts regardless of the final drive ratio(I didn't realise this at first). The spiral bevel gear that takes drive to the propshaft hasn't been changed. Anyway the 3.78 final drive is now fitted to the 4x4 diff ok having drilled the holes at work, it's hardened steel so needed a carbide drill bit. Just need to get the rest back in now, a couple of new bearings and shove it in the car sometime.
Can someone explain this a bit clearer... I'm having trouble visualizing this.

regards,
Nick
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