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Can anyone please help me with a problem I am having with my Fiat Panda (1996 model). Went to start the car and found it was only firing on 2 cylinders. Checked spark plugs, they were ok. Checked power supply to one of the coils (its has 2)and there was no power and also brake warning light stays on. Is the warning light staying on because its only firing on 2 and there isnt enough vacuum in it or is it another problem?

Pandanovice said:

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Can anyone please help me with a problem I am having with my Fiat Panda (1996 model). Went to start the car and found it was only firing on 2 cylinders. Checked spark plugs, they were ok. Checked power supply to one of the coils (its has 2)and there was no power and also brake warning light stays on. Is the warning light staying on because its only firing on 2 and there isnt enough vacuum in it or is it another problem?

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As far as I know.

I didn't think there were any 1996 models in the UK. But assuming like late 1993 to 1995.

In reverse order:
the brake light comes on for low fluid, as well as handbrake on, or handbrake microswitch still on/wiring issue.

Running on 2 cylinders I'd expect the injection warning light to be on, which is red too, but with a different icon (looks a bit like an injector) to the brakes.
Are you sure it's the brake warning light?

Coil failure is not uncommon.

If you're bold enough to check for sparks (use an old plug on one of the leads and earth the body of the plug on the block - then get someone else to crank - but take care as the voltage is very high, and you may damage the ECU if you try making really big sparks (without the plug)) and try swapping the coils, to see if it coil or ECU, or wiring between ECU and coil.
Remember you need a spark plug on both ends of the coil for it to work.

Also consider that a failed/open circuit plug lead will take out two plugs, and maybe the ECU too.

ECUs are expensive.


Let us know how you get on.



John H

Thanks for replying John. I have already tried most of what you have said and do have the Panda Workshop manual which also unfortunately only goes up to the 1995 model but it has got a suppliment for updated models which is the Fire Engine Model with overhead cam fuel injection. My model is not an overhead cam nor fuel injection, and you are right to say that it is not an English car, as I am now living here in Crete, Greece, thats where I bought it - probably a bitsa (bits of this, bits of that ha ha).

So far, after trying everything you said, I still have no power to one of the coils. Do you know whether they fitted a ballist resister or are they 12 volt coils? If it was 12 volt I could run a lead from the battery to the coil to test the coil out. I am a bit reluctant to take it to a garage out here as I dont know enough greek to know what they are on about and the last time I went to a garage got tucked up for over 700 euro's (about 500 quid).

Im a bit thick where modern electronics are concerned, whats an ECU? Come to that, I cant even find a distributor on it! So any more information and help would be most appreciated.

Sorry - I hadn't looked at your location. D'oh!

Anyway, regarding the engine:
exhaust down the front, just behind the radiator - FIRE
exhaust down the back - likely to be a variant of the old 903 pushrod engine (possibly 899cc like the smaller Cinqs).

An ECU is Electronic Control Unit, also known as ECM - Electronic Control Module.
Fitted to nearly all European cars from about 1993, and generally controls fuel injection, and ignition. Although there are some exceptions: my early 1993 Panda has an ECU which is only involved with fuel injection, but it has a distributor which has no points, for example.
The (single point) fuel injection on this Panda looks for all the world like a carburettor ( but has a number of electrical connectors plugged into it), and works in a similar fashion, apart from it's fuel being pulsed into the air flow. The ECU alters the pulse width to change the ammount of fuel delivered.

I'd guess your coils are less than 12 volt rated, not necessarily because of a ballast resistor, but because the electronic switching loses some voltage across the device doing the switching - I think my coil is effectively a 9 or 10 volt coil - but you may be in the right area for a fault on yours if it does have ballast resistors.

From what I remember of ballast resistors, they are bypassed when starting to give a higher voltage to the coil when the battery voltage drops due to the current taken by the starter motor. When they fail you would get a situation where a car would start and run while the starter was engaged, but stop as soon as the starter was released.

Does your Panda seem to start on 4, then run on 2 when you stop cranking?
If so, get looking for ballast resistors!

The idea with twin coils is to do away with the distributor - a mechanical lump, prone to wear and variation between one and the next, resulting in inaccuracy in ignition timing, and more voltage lost across the rotor arm gap than you would through another spark plug.
The timing reference on later Pandas is a toothed wheel mounted on the crankshaft in front of the alternator drive belt.
There is a sensor mounted close to it, known as CAS (Crank Angle Sensor), and the ECU uses this for timing and engine speed information. There is a tooth "missing", which is the reference point.


Regards


John H

Hi John thanks again for all your help but I am completely lost. Think I will have to take it to a garage after all. Will let you know how I get on. Paul

Can anyone local to you recommend a "straight" garage that knows what they're doing?

Well I hope so, have been recommended one by a neighbour - he is greek - so it should be ok, if not will just have to send in the heavy mob lol Paul