Hi all, new to the forum.
I was given a 1993 Panda CLX 999cc (Fire, fuel injection) as I'm learning to drive.
I really enjoy driving the Panda compared to the Corsa I started learning in it's a much more fun drive however I've noticed that my third gear makes a crunching noise when engaged - no other gear makes a sound. At first I thought it was me, being a novice driver and all but after a few trips in the car it's been consistently third gear and third gear only.

Anything I can do before asking a mechanic to look at it?

The car has been sitting in a garage for 6-7 months and before that it wasn't used in almost 2 years, so perhaps it's a lubrication problem

Thanks for your help, you all seem like a friendly lot

sounds like a synchro problem. i'm pretty sure that it's not a lubrication fix. try to double clutch when engaging 3rd. double clutching is engaging the clutch while in neutral before going into 3rd gear. disengage teh clutch and then engage it once more and put the gear into 3rd and see if it still grinds. if it doesn't, then it's a synchro. if it does, then... umm, i donno. make sure that you don't force it into gear. let the tranny "pull" it into gear. push it into gear but don't force it, if you do it right, it'll "catch" and then you'll feel it get pulled in. good luck. pandas are a lot of fun. enjoy!

serge

It's very common on Pandas to have little, or no synchromesh on third gear.

My "K" plate CLX is very bad in this respect - but my youngest daughter learnt to drive in it, and she uses it without crunching third.

The trick is to take your time with the change, and push very gently and slowly at the point of engaging third - especially so when changing down from 4th or 5th.

Once you get the feel for it there's no problem at all.

If the gearbox is quiet, and works well in other respects, you're just looking at spending quite a lot of money (or your time and effort), to overcome something you can work around with some skill.

If you notice an obstruction in ALL the gears I'd check the clutch pedal height, as I had to register it...but you said it only happens when engaging the 3rd gear, so why not to change the gearbox oil,especially if the car has been stop for long.And more, a molybdenum bisulphur treatment could be good...

I'll give all the suggestions a try and get back to you.

Thanks very much!

Enzo said:

And more, a molybdenum bisulphur treatment could be good...

Click to expand...

I beg to differ, Enzo.


The gearbox in the Panda was designed to use fairly basic oil, it actually needs some friction for the synchromesh to work.

If you put friction reducing additives in you'll get worse synchro problems.


An oil change for the gearbox is a worthwhile job though.


Regards



John H


Cue argument about oil type

The gearbox in the Panda was designed to use fairly basic oil, it actually needs some friction for the synchromesh to work.

Click to expand...

Mmm...there's another matter to consider, when the Panda gearbox has been designed the modern oils didn't exist yet...maybe only the Api GL3 spec in that time !But the tecnology has developed new products which should cover all the previous specs, or atleast this is the philosophy of the Api classifications ;actually I use the Tutela Zc 75w80 synth oil, which meets the Api Gl5 spec...of course it doesn't work as a brand new gearbox, but I can't notice poor syncromesh or huge engaging difficulties.

Regarding the treatments I must say they haven't been put into my car and probably that day never come...just use good lubricants !

Hi, I agree with John H.
Most of my FIATs have had 'poor' third gear synchro. But I treat them with respect - you know it's not too good, so you don't push it! Just an extra half-second or one second is the difference while changing gear. I notice that when someone else drives my car, they're wrestling with the gear lever, crunching away angrily... and what does it gain them? an extra second or so?

I also agree with Enzo in that a gear oil change would be a good idea, but I recommend sticking with the FIAT oil, Tutela ZC 90. It's not that expensive, and regardless of GL3/GL5 etc. it is important that it does not smell of sulphur (it is a non-EP gear oil.)

It is possible for a mechanic to disassemble the gearbox and turn over the synchro ring for 3rd/4th, this effectively gets about 1/2-extra life out of it. I would suggest this if there are any other gearbox faults, e.g. bearing noises, that make a 'quick' overhaul worthwhile. Anything more than a quick overhaul (e.g. fitting new synchros) inevitably leads to an expensive operation because there are many other parts that will also be somewhat worn, so to do a proper job everything must be replaced.

So why not just drive within its limits - you'll still get good performance really - and it should last for a long time without getting any worse.

Recently I sold an X1/9 to someone that drove it quite brutally. I had found the third-gear synchro OK, thousands of happy kilometres, but I noticed during his test-drive that he crunched it every time. Sometimes he would just shove the lever into gear with considerable force, and judging from the jolt I don't think the clutch was being used properly. Anyway, I get this phone call two weeks later. The car is immobile, the transmission stuck in third gear. The gearbox was subsequently stripped by a specialist, who pronounced that third gear synchro had 'exploded'. So that's how NOT to treat your third gear... remember, thousands of happy kilometres, or a few hundred brutally frustrating kilometres... it was the same gearbox!

PS. Double-declutching works as follows (I'm not disagreeing with yellow911turbo, just offering more detail). Normally when changing from 4th to 3rd, the synchro will speed up the 'free' shaft while clutch is disengaged, so the gears can engage. If you engage the clutch with gearbox in neutral and rev the engine, you are speeding up the 'free' shaft, then you disengage clutch and engage third. But it is easy to over-speed the 'free' shaft and then you have made work for the synchro because it has to slow the 'free' shaft down.

I put it to you also that the double-declutching takes at least a second to do properly (you must fully engage clutch with lever out of gear, blip the throttle, and fully disengage clutch again before attempting to select 3rd) and so I think it's easier to just take your time changing gears the normal way. But yellow911turbo is from Italy, and they double-declutch because they were weaned on FIAT 500s, and because they are impatient...

-Alex