Hi folks,
Ive just test driven and checked out a panda 4x4 and when I got home I phoned the bloked and agreed to buy it.

A few things though - the rocker cover gasket is leaking oil.
I doubt this is a serious problem but where can I get a gasket? (anything I should know about when changing it)
The oil looked ok though.

Im going to change the oil,sparks and oil & air filters as a matter of course so I didnt see this as much of a problem.

There is a little rust appearing on the outside over the rear arches - just a little looked like it would rub away and paint easily.

Two small bubbles on the pasenger door - bottom corners - the begining of the end? -inside looked ok though.

Sills looked fine - both seemed in very good condition generally - a little filler on the back corner - not much though and looked tidy.

Interior was sound but needed a serious clean.
Car was dusty and coverd in leaves - the bloke hadnt pre started it as their was an old spider web over the drivers door etc.

All the electrics worked as did the wipers and wahser jets.
4x4 worked fine although took me a few goes to get it back out of it.

It has 62000 on the clock and lots of old mot's etc. 1988 f reg.
Metalic grey - although the drivers door has clearly been replaced as a few hints of red showing through.

The sunroof things need a serious clean though.
Full bull bars front and back - need to be rubbed down and re painted.

The clutch seeme a little fierce - what are they like normally?

We agreed £200 - as this wise? I dont care - im well exited and cant wait to get started - driving and sorting.

Cheers
JC



Looking for a 4x4 Panda.
Have a 1992 Eunos Roadster 1.6 (turbocharged - but looks standard)

Errm - can anyone tell me what petrol it takes?

Is it unleaded or LRP if its still around?

Nearly own a 4x4 Panda.
Have a 1992 Eunos Roadster 1.6 (turbocharged - but looks standard)

Hi Roadster....and CONGRATULATIONS...you now own one of the finest confections ever produced by Italians !
It should be o.k. on unleaded, but if you can let me know it's chassis number I'll be able to confirm it (or not!). 'E' to 'H' need to be checked.
Rocker cover oil leaks come as standard. They can usually be cured by a great dollop of silicone sealer ( I suspect that the covers are made by the same company that can't quite get the shape of the sump's right).
£200 ? Spot on...I'll buy it off you for £300 as is ...Quick profit ?

[}]
It would be well worth your while to disconnect all of the 4x4 links, sand them down and re-pin and grease them. There should be very little resistence when disengaging; providing you are driving under 25mph in a straight line. Any real 'wind-up' problems: stop the car, put it into reverse and depress dogclutch whilst going bacwards, SLOWLY.
Your rot pproblems sound o.k., but don't dismiss the wheel-arches as unimportant. They are vital to the structure of the floorpan..........grind back all of the rot and deal with it. I'm a bit concerned about your 'filled' sill; please check the extent of any rot behind it.
At the moment, I am running two 4x4 Panda's.........one has a very fierce clutch, and the other is much fiercer !
All the very best.......

HHmmmmmmm

Cheers Pandafan - im really excited about my new friend/project.
Surprisingly nippy!

Ill get a pic of the filler on the sill.
Yeah - ill tend to the rust post haste - thanks for the heads up.


We were stationery when I tried to disengauge the 4x4 - so im alittle worried about that.

The guy has 155 tyres on the front? I dont think thats right?

I cant wait to get started - needs a serious clean!

Cheers
JC




Nearly own a 4x4 Panda.
Have a 1992 Eunos Roadster 1.6 (turbocharged - but looks standard)

Hello, and welcome

The guy has 155 tyres on the front? I dont think thats right?

Click to expand...

Pandafan could probably confirm this, but AFAIK, the 4x4 had 165 section tyres - the 155s are the optional ones from a 2wd.

I cant wait to get started - needs a serious clean!

Click to expand...

It's only a small car, so just a few hours with the hose, shampoo, chamois leather, T-Cut, and wax can work wonders [8D] I usually spend about 5.5 / 6 hours for the full works clean [8)][^]

Have fun!

RE the tyres, according to Porter:

most basic versions - 135/80 SR 13
"Super" versions pre 1986 145/70 SR 13
"Super" versions post 1986 155/65 SR 13
Panda 1000, optional 155/65 SR 13
Panda 4x4 145 SR 13 M&S

All on 4.00 B x 13 wheels.

Regards

John H

Hi Roadster...I'm glad you love your beastie
As far as I am aware all Panda 4x4's were fitted with 145 SR13 M&S (mud and snow) as standard. Serious off-roaders kept the 145's, but changed to 'knobbley's'. People who didn't want to get them dirty (? what's the point in that ?) and wanted better fuel consumption changed to the 155/65's of the later Pandas. If you want to be 'right'...and incidentally, you want your speedo to be anywhere near accurate (!), you really need to fit 145's with a pressure of 29psi all 'round.
Enjoy..

HHmmmmmmm

You actually get less rolling resistance, and better MPG/KML on 135's...

Thanks for the comments and info guys.



Well its now outside following a fun few miles back to my place. My wife drove behind me and said its really cool. [8D]

Now for the serious stuff.
It makes a few noises it probably shouldnt. Ill start with those once ive changed the basics.

The chassis no is 04175320.
So Pandafan if you could check somehow id be eternally gratefull.
It seems to pink or rattle a little. Ill check the timing.

Ill get a few pics up somewhere and post the URL.
I plan to document the progress a bit.

Its currently full of leaves etc. Its been parked under a tree down some lane near some stables for quite some time.

Here is my cardomain page - its not finished and is about my Mazda - but ive given a page to my Panda. Page 2.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/325792/2



Cheers guys
Jonathan [8D]

Nearly own a 4x4 Panda.
Have a 1992 Eunos Roadster 1.6 (turbocharged - but looks standard)

Originally posted by John H
You actually get less rolling resistance, and better MPG/KML on 135's...

Click to expand...

True, but be (very) careful in the wet.

I would go for the widest possible, personally.

I plan to fit 165/70R13 in a few weeks. I used to have 155mm wide tyres, and the handling was much improved over the dire 135s, 165 better still, but the 14" wheels I had were rubbing a bit.

Incidently it should be the diameter that governs speedo accuracy, width is not a factor. So 13" rims with 70MM tyres of any width should do.

Regards,

Martin

______________________________________
What's that burning smell?? Ah, that'll be the Daewoo.

Originally posted by Martiny10

Originally posted by John H
You actually get less rolling resistance, and better MPG/KML on 135's...

Click to expand...

True, but be (very) careful in the wet.

I would go for the widest possible, personally.

Click to expand...

Biggest problem with 135's is they are commonly cheap and nasty - and made with rubbish compound, with a poor tread pattern.

Have a look here:

http://tinyurl.com/ywoph

Down near the bottom there is a section headed -

"Fat or thin? The question of contact patches and grip."

There's also a tyre size calculator in there, which will work out speedo errors by comparing correct sizes and sections for a given wheel size, against your choice of "upgrade".

Good website but I have to strengthen the case for wide tyres....

Suppose I have two tyres, 1 narrow and 1 wide.

According to Chris, each tyre has a ‘contact patch’ of approximately the same area.

To make the maths easy consider the patches are:



Now in reality each tyre has a tread pattern, this is effectively an area of fresh air on the “contact patch”, because there is no rubber at these points. At the most basic level the tread pattern would appear as a series of vertical stripes on the “contact patch.”

If we make a vertical stripe on the wide tyre, say 2 units wide, it has area 2x25=50 units squared.

If we make a vertical stripe, say 2 units wide, on the narrow tyre it has area 2x50=100units squared.

So, for a given tread pattern, the wide tyre is going to lose less “Contact Area,” through tread pattern loss.



Thus the wide tyre is going to have more contact between tyre and road, hence more grip.

This is bourne out by my experience, 2 years on narrow followed by 2 years on wider tyres. The wider wheels were superior.

Phew, go wide!



Regards,

Martin

______________________________________
What's that burning smell?? Ah, that'll be the Daewoo.

135s are loads of fun Fast cornering can be especially hair-raising [:0]

Originally posted by John H
Biggest problem with 135's is they are commonly cheap and nasty - and made with rubbish compound, with a poor tread pattern.

Click to expand...

John's right, and 135s are often made by some unknown company in Yugoslavia (as was) and retail at about £20. However, I've got 135 section Goodyear GT2 tyres on my 900, and they were £23 each, so for just £3 difference, I'd prefer the piece of mind that comes from having branded tyres [^]

Hi again...sorry about the gaff regarding wider tyres and speedo correctness. I know that my comment was stupid... but I'd just arrived home from the pub! All the rest was correct though
However, it did spark off an interesting debate. I've driven a lot of Panda's on 135's .. terrible, unless you like pretending that you're driving a very slow Porsche or Skoda Rapide.
I agree that wider is usually better, due to the 'footprint' on the road...but be careful: the leaf-springed Pandas don't like wider tyres as they tend to wear little holes in the fuel-filler pipe when under load.

HHmmmmmmm

Martiny ! Like the graphs...they remind me of a very tedious six years that I spent working for Dunlops....Thanks [xx(]

HHmmmmmmm

Originally posted by Martiny10
Good website but I have to strengthen the case for wide tyres....

Suppose I have two tyres, 1 narrow and 1 wide.

According to Chris, each tyre has a ‘contact patch’ of approximately the same area.

To make the maths easy consider the patches are:

Now in reality each tyre has a tread pattern, this is effectively an area of fresh air on the “contact patch”, because there is no rubber at these points. At the most basic level the tread pattern would appear as a series of vertical stripes on the “contact patch.”

If we make a vertical stripe on the wide tyre, say 2 units wide, it has area 2x25=50 units squared.

If we make a vertical stripe, say 2 units wide, on the narrow tyre it has area 2x50=100units squared.

So, for a given tread pattern, the wide tyre is going to lose less “Contact Area,” through tread pattern loss.

Thus the wide tyre is going to have more contact between tyre and road, hence more grip.

This is bourne out by my experience, 2 years on narrow followed by 2 years on wider tyres. The wider wheels were superior.

Phew, go wide!

Click to expand...

Perilously close to convincing - but you have more tread pattern stripes across the width of the wider tyre.

If I chose a random pattern - 4 units rubber to 1 unit fresh air across the width:

the narrow tyre is 50 wide, so divide by 5, gives 10 pattern repeats multiplied by your 100 units lost gives
1000 units lost by the pattern for the narrow tyre.

the wider tyre is 200 wide, divide by 5 again, gives 40 pattern repeats multiplied by your 50 units lost gives
2000 units lost by the pattern for the wider tyre.

Two points:

1 I think it's a red herring anyway - the tyre will deform to give the contact patch required by the load on the tyre, and its pressure.

2 If you're worried about the wet - consider aquaplaning. Wide tyre are worse.

No further comments??

OK, then - here's a bit more to think about:

There is more rubber in total on the tread surface of the wider tyre, even though the spot contact area is similar, and if the wear rate was similar between narrow and wide your wider tyres would last too long...

So they commonly use a softer (grippier) compound on the wide tyres, so you keep on buying them fairly often.

The side effect of this is that you have more "grip" on the wider tyre, for the same life expectancy of tyre.

The only snag is that different makers use different compounds, and you might get as good grip with a decent quality 135 as you'd get with a poor 155 (or wider).... and you might win in extreme wet/aquaplaning conditions with narrower tyres with a good tread pattern.


Enough, already.

John H

...are we still talking about Fiat Panda's ??

Good grief !



HHmmmmmmm

Which give the best handling though?

just got 4 new 155`s for my panda they are real firestone tyres and they were

wait for it

£13.75 each!

I love having friends in the motor trade!

getting them fitted by him as well it will be about £70 for all 4 fitted