Technical palio heating problems inside car

[fedorsky]

Hi,

Does anybody have a clue to this problem:

-the heating inside is always on, even when I put it to cool air, still warm air is coming out.
-less power at high RPM, it doesn't get past 140 km/h anymore
The temperature is pretty normal in the engine however. No overheating, only in trafic jams the arrow gets a little over the half.

Could it be the thermostate? Or is it something else? I also got a plugged injector last week but with injector cleaner this problem was tackled. Up to the next! Does anybody have a clue?

Thanks a lot,
Fedor

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Thermostat is a weak point on the Palio 1,6-16V.

 

[fedorsky]

Hi Peter,

Well I changed the thermostate, no heating problems anymore! But the engine still lacks power. Also changed the spark plugs (it is running a little smoother) and considering the fact that the problem persists if I run on LPG (diffent injectors) the injectors cannot be the cause of this lack of power. I cant get it past 130-140 and it should go easily to 170-180. It clearly lacks power.

What can I try next? Any suggestions?

Fedor

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

How is the condition of the airfilter?
( www.sogefifiltration.com )
No clogged catalyst ?
Bad O2 sensor?
Did you have the car checked for stored faults at a Fiat dealer yet?

The Palio 1,6-16V is a very fast little car, lots of horsepower (105) and low total weight, (1000kg) makes it a small pocket racer in disguise.
Fiat claims a top speed of 186 km, that's more than 200km on the speedometer...!!
We just came back from a week in the Belgium Ardennes, , and as we live in the Northern part of Holland, we always travel along the BAB 31 in Germany ( no speedlimits), I keep an average speed of 150-160 km for hours easily....!

 

[e_cag]

If consumption is high too, one needs to check the lambda sensor. But the sensor also causes instable idle which is not your complaint i guess. Maybe someone who knows better can check the AFM too. Air leakage from anywhere? As Peter Pick-Up pointed, 1.6 16 is a very fast car. Even someone i know saw some more than 200 on the clock .

 

[fedorsky]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the feedback! Im a little further now, heating problems have been cleared by a new thermostate! I also did a compression check:

5.6 5.2 5.8 2.3 and with oil in bougy hole 5.9 5.5 5.9 3.8

What do you think of this, for me it explains the lack of power but the numbers seem overall a little low do they?

I also have coolant consumption and found traces below the manifold gasgets.

Am I up to a cilinderhead revision? what do you think?

Best regards, Fedor

 

[fedorsky]

oh and by the way, this is exactly why I bought this car! I am a mountaineer and since in the netherlands the highest mountain is 300 meters we always drive to the alps at night at high speed to do some climbing! I also drive on lpg so this probably pays back now...

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Any oil consumption?
How many km's on the engine?
Does it start ok from cold.....
The 1,6-16V is well known for a little coolant consumption, mine uses a little since I own the car ( 2003, and 100,000km's now) so don't worry about that.
Is the timing OK?
When was the last service on the car, and what was done to it?

 

[e_cag]

5.6 5.2 5.8 2.3 and with oil in bougy hole 5.9 5.5 5.9 3.8

I don't know the expected values for the compression check but the difference between 3.8 and the other values makes some sense. The harm to the engine arising from the use of LPG is a myth to some extent but after a chain of unfortunate events, bad lubrication with the lack of wet fuel may cause wear of the engine. A new set of rings may be considered after some more checks. I didn't understand the "bougy hole"?

Edit: one of the other thousands of the reasons is bad valves on top of the cylinder with lower compression. May worth checking.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

He means sparkplug hole.
I don't think the difference in compression explains the lack of power, something else is wrong imo.

 

[fedorsky]

Hi guys, the story continues but here some answers:

No excess oil consumption, 218000 km on the engine, no starting problems

I service the car myselves regarding oil/coolant/filters/bougies etc and. I serviced a lot of things, too many to mention right now.
But I took the car to the garage in march and they said there were noises from the dynamo and timing belt. So I changed the dynamo and they changed the belt. (nothing happened to the noises and the power) They did not even measure the compression.

Concerning the question of timing:
I was ready to open the engine last weekend and I was quite surprised that the flyweel was not aligned. The markings were 2 cm too far! The timing of the other parts is ok.
This might explain a lot and I am quitte angry with the garage right now. For today I am going to fix the belt to the upper wheels (sprockets), set the flywheel right and get the belt on tension again. (I v never done it but im going to try. Or can there be a reason for putting the flywheel timing out of place?

Regards Fedor

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

The timing belt has a self adjusting bearing (spanrol in Dutch) wich must be replaced at every belt change, together with another bearing (looprol), if this is not done, it might explain the noise.
I service our Palio myself too, but every 60.000 km or three years, an official Fiat workshop changes the distribution with original Fiat spares....

 

[e_cag]

No idea about timing mark. As Peter pointed, a tensioning bearing may be the reason for the noise. When the bearing is worn, it makes a noise which is like kind of buzz. At some high revs the noise may disappear if it is the same noise from your car. In the end the bearing completely wears out and due to loose belt, the dinamo stops charging and when the accumulator drains the car stalls because the electrical fuel pump doesn't run. I guess the bearing lasts at most a couple of months after the noise started. That still doesn't explain lack of power.

Looking at the compression values, i still feel there may be something wrong because cylinder no.4 changes dramatically from 2.3 to 3.8 with the oil while the others don't change so much. It looks like three cylinders trying to drag the fourth one.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

It is very, VERY important to change both bearings together with the timing belt.
If one of those bearings fails, the timing belt will break, and the engine will be destroyed for sure.....

 

[fedorsky]

Hi guys,

Thanks for giving feedback! The bearings are changed and I fitted the belt corresponding with the timing marks. The engine runs better I must say and the noise is less. Still it lacks power so next weekend I'm going to open it up anyway, and check those valves at the 4th cilinder. I'm also going to replace gaskets of the manifolds and the head gasket. Still smelling exhaust gasses through the ventilation at 0 km/h.
I'll keep you informed!

Fedor

 

[e_cag]

Good luck then!.. I hope that changing the bearings solved the noise issue and the others will be sorted soon.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Hi guys, the story continues but here some answers:

No excess oil consumption, 218000 km on the engine, no starting problems

I service the car myselves regarding oil/coolant/filters/bougies etc and. I serviced a lot of things, too many to mention right now.
But I took the car to the garage in march and they said there were noises from the dynamo and timing belt. So I changed the dynamo and they changed the belt. (nothing happened to the noises and the power) They did not even measure the compression.

Concerning the question of timing:
I was ready to open the engine last weekend and I was quite surprised that the flyweel was not aligned. The markings were 2 cm too far! The timing of the other parts is ok.
This might explain a lot and I am quitte angry with the garage right now. For today I am going to fix the belt to the upper wheels (sprockets), set the flywheel right and get the belt on tension again. (I v never done it but im going to try. Or can there be a reason for putting the flywheel timing out of place?

Regards Fedor

Fedorski: do something about the rust at your oil pan!
You wouldn't be the first with a major oil leak there....!!!!