500 (Classic) Upgrade thoughts anyone?

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500 (Classic) Upgrade thoughts anyone?

Arancia

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Hi
Bit of a newbie to Fiat 500 ownership but have now almost striped my 1971 machine completely. Next step is body dip, then fresh metal then lots of lovely new paint! Better than original is my aim but keeping it looking pretty standard. So - while the body is being sorted I’ll be doing the cleaning of all the bits that came off and fully rebuilding the engine, gearbox etc..
Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for sympathetic upgrades? Would love to hear your thoughts. Engine and other areas?
Also how do I figure out if it is an F, L or even R?! Or is there a separate Classic designation? Best get it right when ordering all those nice new parts, although I intend to re use as much as possible.
Finally I wonder who the best supplier of spare parts is.... having experienced variable quality of reproduced spares on other cars it would be good to avoid the pitfalls this time.
Look forward to hearing any and all ideas.
Many thanks

Peter
 
If it’s a 1971 it is likely to be an F or L. Pictures would help but as you have it completely stripped that may not be possible at the moment. Chassis number could also narrow it down.

As for modifications it is your car and entirely up to you some would say keep it as original as possible others do what you want with it.

As a relatively new 500 owner I have kept mine reasonably original but have fitted a washer bag with electric motor and the dash knee pads and a radio (Which I think works but can’t tell for the engine noise ha ha) and inertia reel seatbelts.

I may in time fit electronic ignition and upgrade the headlights to halogen but intend to keep it reasonably original but modify for reliability and safety.

As for suppliers I mainly use Ricambio International (Surrey) and Motobambino (Lancashire) although there are others such as Axel Gerst (Germany) Van Der Lan ( Holland) and others. I think ther is a list of suppliers on the forum somewhere.
 
Welcome to the forums Arancia

As an owner of two classic MGs (1979 and 1932) I would say keep it looking absolutely standard.

However there are things that can be done under 'wraps' to improve reliability and to some extent performance, and these things can be reverted back to original spec easily if a purist should later wish to do so.
For example, both the vintage and classic have modern ignition built into original components. On initial scrutiny the cars look totally standard.

The vintage has an original (and notoriously unreliable) SU Petrolift fuel-pump, but it is just a dummy; an empty shell that the fuel passes through. A modern Facet pump is hidden under the chassis at the rear of the car pumps the fuel.

So as I said, there are small changes that can be done without any obvious visible difference on show.

Above all, if you know the car's original colour, (however bad it is!) whatever you do, don't be persuaded to change it! It's well documented that keeping your car historically 'correct' is important and will definitely help it hold it's value. Some folk will tell you to just do what you want with it - but if it ends up like a custom job it will just turn into Frankenstein's car in my opinion.
 
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There are a number of things that can be done to upgrade/enhance the 500. One of the easiest is to fit a 540cc engine kit--it is "take off the old bits--bolt on the new" kit The new barrels fit straight into the crank-case without any machining work required. Cylinder heads can be enhanced (bigger inlet valves + porting) the later 126 carb, Weber 28IMB, can be fitted. These simple modifications will enhance the performance (which will make it less stressful to drive in modern traffic) but the engine will still look entirely original.
If your car is RHD it will be either a 'F' or a 'L'---the 'R' was only made in LHD. As Fiona pointed our, a chassis number will help determine the model. What sort of instrument cluster has the car got? If it is the 'simple' instrument cluster, then it will be a 'F'---if it has the big instrument cluster with a fuel gauge, then it is a 'L'. Early 126 wheels will allow you to fit slightly wider tyres, inertia seat-belts are always a good idea. Be careful when up-grading the head-lamps---LED headlamps are illegal in the UK.
How far you want to go with the car enhancement-wise is entirely up to you. If you would like to drop me a line ([email protected]) I can supply you with more good parts suppliers. Motobambino is a good choice.
 
Best to think about what you want to use the car for. If it is just shows and a local run around then you could stay standard all around and live the original 500 driving experience.
If you and others are going to drive the car a 126 synchromesh gearbox bolted onto the 500 bellhousing is worth considering. I you are likely to drive in traffic much then you may want to increase power that as the Hobbler has pointed out can be done very inconspicuously and would take an expert to spot. With my own car I had the crankcase bored out to take larger 500R or 126 cylinders. An “invisible mend” to the lack of power.
Great idea to use as much of the original bits as possible and as owners continue to show here parts can be made better than new if required.
 
Oh boy, where do I begin? So in essence I have lots of upgrades to my car. But it still looks original and or, can be reverted to original look very quickly, Less than 2 mins

I have a 1975 R, so already a 594cc engine but I've fitted / replaced the below.

Most done to make more reliable. But nothing obvious to the casual observer apart from the incorrect wheels fitted and sports exhaust which are my preferences.

For me, I’ll not go down the route of bigger wheels, tyres, suspension, high HP engine, brakes etc. As it’s not what the car (for me) is about. I have fitted what I wanted in terms of upgrades and happy now just to use her as much as I can!

Electronic Ignition

Ansa Twin Sports Exhaust

28mm Weber Carb

Abrath 4L Oil Pan

Synchronised gearbox

Electronic Voltage Reg
Silicone spark plug leads
Larger capacity battery

Electronic dash, oil press, temp, rev's, batt voltage, clock

New ignition components. Plugs, rota, dist cap,coil.
New clutch and cable.
RHD lights fitted and correct wiring for turn signals.
Seat belts (waste of time, never used, now removed)

New fuel tank breathable cap
New cooling flap thermostat
L model adjustable seats

New gearstick, as the plastic bushes were gone, so could not select all gears.
LED headlight bulbs fitted. Less current draw and much brighter.

New fuel pump fitted. New fuel lines
"L" Model wheels. Have the R's in garage.


 
Many many thanks for all of your advice and suggestions. I suspect I will do the engine mods for a little more ‘go’ as well as other things to improve reliability like fuel pump which I didn’t know about. Looks like it has had a new carb recently but don’t know what it is yet.
And I’ll keep the original orange. I suspect from what you say it is an ‘L’ along with the bigger instrument cluster.
I suspect this may not be the last you hear from me!
Many thanks again
 
With regard to the standard 500/126 fuel-pump. It does NOT need to be replaced with an electric pump. It is a simple, very reliable item that pushes through enough fuel for all you needs. Abarth used the standard pump even on the 695SS versions! I have a tuned '652cc'126 engine in the back of my 500 (it has deliberately been turned into a 695SS replica) and it has a standard fuel-pump---never had a moments trouble with it. A lot of the electric pumps that people fit (to replace the standard pump) actually pump fuel at too high a pressure, which can cause more problems than you are trying to cure by the fitment of the electric pump. The trick is to carefully enhance the vehicle/engine but still retain as much as you can of the original, especially where that particular part has proved to be reliable. The designer of the 500s engine was Aurelio Lampredi who as well as designing the 500 engine, designed some very fine Ferrari engines, and to top it all off, he also designed the Fiat 'twin-cam' engine---an icon of engine design. For road-use, a lot of the 500/126 engine can be left as standard, using the original factory designed parts.
 
With regard to the standard 500/126 fuel-pump. It does NOT need to be replaced with an electric pump. It is a simple, very reliable item that pushes through enough fuel for all you needs. Abarth used the standard pump even on the 695SS versions! I have a tuned '652cc'126 engine in the back of my 500 (it has deliberately been turned into a 695SS replica) and it has a standard fuel-pump---never had a moments trouble with it. A lot of the electric pumps that people fit (to replace the standard pump) actually pump fuel at too high a pressure, which can cause more problems than you are trying to cure by the fitment of the electric pump. The trick is to carefully enhance the vehicle/engine but still retain as much as you can of the original, especially where that particular part has proved to be reliable. The designer of the 500s engine was Aurelio Lampredi who as well as designing the 500 engine, designed some very fine Ferrari engines, and to top it all off, he also designed the Fiat 'twin-cam' engine---an icon of engine design. For road-use, a lot of the 500/126 engine can be left as standard, using the original factory designed parts.
Thanks - fascinating stuff. So it’s basically a Ferrari engine then?!
Looking forward to taking it apart. Did I read somewhere that the pistons go up and down together and not alternately?
Last of the suspension comes off tomorrow, then strip the doors down and then get the body and disassembled panels to Prostrip in Nottingham. Any experience of using them anyone?

Thanks again
 
Er no, it is not basically a Ferrari engine! But you are correct in thinking that both the pistons go up and down together, which is why the 500/126 crankshafts have a ruddy great balance weight on the opposite side of the crank to the big-end journals. Very few 'twins' have the pistons going up/down opposite to each other. When they do go up and down 'opposite' you get a very 'V-twin' type beat when the engine is idling. The engine in my narrow-boat was a "Kelvin J2", a 2 cylinder petrol-start diesel (3-litre twin!) and the pistons went up/down 'opposite, with the result that the 2 firing strokes followed each other, so you got a firing sequence of "fire, fire, miss, miss, fire, fire), and at its correct idle speedof 225rpm, you could physically feel the uneven beat. The Kelvin 'K2' had the same firing characteristic, but at 4 litres per cylinder, it had an idle speed of 160rpm and at that speed, you can really feel the eneven idle beat
Peter, you would have enjoyed that engine---it was built by Bergius Co Ltd at Dobbies Loan, Glasgow, and was a joy to use---I was really sad when we had to sell the boat.
 
Er no, it is not basically a Ferrari engine! But you are correct in thinking that both the pistons go up and down together, which is why the 500/126 crankshafts have a ruddy great balance weight on the opposite side of the crank to the big-end journals. Very few 'twins' have the pistons going up/down opposite to each other. When they do go up and down 'opposite' you get a very 'V-twin' type beat when the engine is idling. The engine in my narrow-boat was a "Kelvin J2", a 2 cylinder petrol-start diesel (3-litre twin!) and the pistons went up/down 'opposite, with the result that the 2 firing strokes followed each other, so you got a firing sequence of "fire, fire, miss, miss, fire, fire), and at its correct idle speedof 225rpm, you could physically feel the uneven beat. The Kelvin 'K2' had the same firing characteristic, but at 4 litres per cylinder, it had an idle speed of 160rpm and at that speed, you can really feel the eneven idle beat
Peter, you would have enjoyed that engine---it was built by Bergius Co Ltd at Dobbies Loan, Glasgow, and was a joy to use---I was really sad when we had to sell the boat.
More fascinating stuff. The Kelvin K2 sounds like some piece of engineering.
 
Both the "J" and "K" series Kelvin marine diesels were lovely, classic, engines---a joy to work on, and with. Designed from the outset as MARINE engines, they did the job they were designed for superbly. The "J" series in 2 or 3 cylinder format (and very occasionally, 4) found a new lease of life on the English canal system, for which they worked very well---slow running, powerful engines, even the "J2" could tow another boat without breaking sweat. Most of "J" series and all of the "K" series were petrol-start, and most of them were also (and that includes the "K" series) 'hand-start' engines (although mine did have an electric starter, which I rarely used) and when one had got the knack, and starting sequence right, they were very easy to hand-start. if you want to know more about the "Kelvin" engines, there is quite a lot of information regarding them'on-line'
 
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