500 Fiat 500 engine issues

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500 Fiat 500 engine issues

MOLLIE500

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Hi I’m glad I’ve found this forum. Not the best Christmas present I wanted, my cars died.

I have a 61 plate Fiat 500c ,I now have a big issue I’m hoping you all maybe able to advise me on.

I was driving along and the temperature light , oil and management light came on, then the car engine just cut out. Now it will not start, it turns over but the engine just won’t start.

Any advise, just had a new gear box put in at the cost of 1000£ so the last thing I’m hoping is I don’t need a new engine.

Merry Christmas.
 
Hello, welcome to the forum, and Merry Christmas.

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Let's start with the basics.

Chek the level of oil in the engine, and coolant in the header tank, and report back.

Oh, and also let us know which engine you've got, and how long it drove between the warning lights coming on and the engine cutting out.
 
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Hi and Merry Christmas, oil was half way on tip, just added more. Coolest isn’t showing so just adding more water.

I started to drive 5mins ,temperature light came on again and a few minutes later oil light then lost power completely and then engine went off.

Called AA then, now won’t start at all. AA man just said it was an engine issue. Was pitch black so he didn’t really have a long look.

Not the best Christmas Eve I’ve had....It’s a 1.2 500C
 
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Coolant isn’t showing so just adding more water.
...temperature light came on again and a few minutes later oil light then lost power completely and then engine went off.

How much water did you have to add?

Sadly it looks like you may have run the car with insufficient coolant. This often leads to head gasket failure; the 1.2 is particularly vulnerable to this if allowed to overheat. The oil warning light is particularly worrying; it may be that you now also have bearing failure.

You'll need to get it properly diagnosed by a competent mechanic; they'll likely do a compression test on the engine, and a pressure test on the cooling system, to verify HG integrity.

My own experience is that repairing engines after this kind of damage is a hit and miss affair; sometimes a new head gasket fixes things, but often they're never really the same again. Replacing your engine with a secondhand one from a written off car may be a better alternative than repairing yours. The good news is that secondhand 1.2 engines are reasonably cheap; @typecastboy could probably point you in the direction of one. Any competent independent should be able to swap an engine without too much difficulty.

Mollie, I'm sorry this has happened to you, particularly at Christmas. But for the rest of you 500 owners, heed the warning. Check your fluid levels (oil,water) every time you fill the car with fuel. And if you ever have any reason to suspect you're running low on coolant (gurgling noises behind the dash, erratic heater performance or a temp gauge that's rising above normal), stop the car as soon as possible and investigate the cause. Even driving for another mile with an overheating engine could permanently ruin it. Remember that a RED warning light means stop driving now.*

*But don't compromise safety; on a so-called smart motorway, at night in the rain; I think I'd try to make the next refuge.
 
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Oh molly I feel for you especially as I’m in the same boat!! After being told my HG has gone then been told by another mechanic that it hadn’t .... well it has! I never had any warning either no warning lights nothing!! I found a place on a site my mechanic or something and got a quote for head gasket repair I’m gonna get the low down when it goes in after NY then I’ll decide what to do either repair or prob a new engine! Either way I love my 500 it’s gonna be expensive but hey ho it’s still cheaper than another decent 500 !!chin up will get there in the end merry Christmas
 
Thanks for all your replies.

Doesn’t sound promising. Baglady1990 sorry to read you also have the same issue.

Anyone have an idea on price of a recon engine?
 
I often see Club500Italia selling low mileage engines. There’s also a fella in Grays, Essex. Doesn’t deliver I don’t think but he’s reliable and trustworthy. Decent engines can be bought for around £400-£600. Of course you’ve got to get someone to install it all which would cost a bit. I reckon my mobile mechanic who actually works building Caterham’s would probably do it for a few hundred. Probably less at a garage with the proper gear to lift and to get underneath.

I have seen decent engines for far less on eBay. Look at feedback on sellers. Provided they are proper breakers I don’t think there’s much risk especially if you can see a picture of the car it came out of. That’s certainly the way I would be doing it if it happened to me.

I’m thinking of around £1,000 all in for cash. Get a low mileage engine and it will be better than it was before.

There are currently loads on eBay under £400. Take a look at this one which is actually out of Ka. 14k Miles and under £250.


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/254461602506
 
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Any replacement engine ladies, probably good idea to have cambelt and waterpump done before it goes in the car. Personally think you'd be unlucky to get same issues again. Baglady1990 maybe ebay auction your original 500, should fund the repair on current one. Just a thought. :)
 
Any replacement engine ladies, probably good idea to have cambelt and waterpump done before it goes in the car. Personally think you'd be unlucky to get same issues again. Baglady1990 maybe ebay auction your original 500, should fund the repair on current one. Just a thought. :)



Thankfully I’m in a position to shell out without selling off my other 500 I’m just annoyed that I have to! If I could do it all myself I would however I’m not as experienced as I would need to be haha
 
Has the heater performance been poor recently?

Yes wouldn’t warm up at all last week or so, meant to mention this. (n)

Thanks for all the replies so far. I’ll try and get it in to a garage this week. Looks like it will cost us a few £ but like I said new gear box of late so spent a lot on it so far. It only has 41k miles on the clock.

Thanks for help.
 
Yes wouldn’t warm up at all last week or so, meant to mention this. (n)

Thanks for all the replies..It only has 41k miles on the clock.

Thanks for help.

No heat output.. unfortunayely that was the only warning that there wasnt enough coolant to circulate..

Im intrigued by the gearbox comment..

41k is pretty soon for a CLUTCH never mind a gearbox.

Im left wondering if they drained coolant for the gearbox swap.. or even created a leak :(

A headgasket failing isnt an absolute disaster..( my panda survived 2..) but if you drove until it physically stopped..
then a new engine may be cheaper in the long run

Where are you based?
As labour rates vary hugely

For a 5 to 8 hour job..

The difference between £35 an hour and £100 will be significant

Charlie
 
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For both of you ladies, when the engine is replaced, please make sure the cause of the failure is also addressed, or the replacement will fail similarly after a short time.

Sadly, when dealing with warranty issues for a major parts distributor, I've seen so many replacement engines failed again, as the original cause was not diagnosed. So time spent there will pay dividends. I encountered one chap who'd replaced his engine five times, and was very upset when all the warranty claims were rejected. "These engines are all rubbish". A hole on his radiator was the cause.
 
No heat output.. unfortunayely that was the only warning that there wasnt enough coolant to circulate..

Im intrigued by the gearbox comment..

41k is pretty soon for a CLUTCH never mind a gearbox.

Im left wondering if they drained coolant for the gearbox swap.. or even created a leak :(

A headgasket failing isnt an absolute disaster..( my panda survived 2..) but if you drove until it physically stopped..
then a new engine may be cheaper in the long run

Where are you based?
As labour rates vary hugely

For a 5 to 8 hour job..

The difference between £35 an hour and £100 will be significant

Charlie


Hi I’m in the Northants area. Until I take it to my local garage not a lot I can do. I’ve seen a few rec engines for not to bad a price, under 500£ . it will come to the changing over and how long that will take that will push the price up.

My first ever car and it’s an expensive learning curve.
 
No heat output.. unfortunately that was the only warning that there wasnt enough coolant to circulate..

Whatever has happened to routine checks? When I started driving, checking the oil and coolant levels was something you did every day, before starting the car. These days, many drivers don't even bother to check these things at all, believing that any problem will be picked up when the car is serviced.

And on ANY car, uncommanded loss of heat should be dealt with by stopping as soon as possible and checking the coolant level.

This isn't meant as a criticism. I do feel sorry for both of these ladies; how are they supposed to know this? They don't teach such things in school, and they don't tell you this during basic driver training. Perhaps every driving lesson should start with a walkround and fluid checks, to instil good habits from the start.

From what's been posted thus far, I suspect both engines sadly are now toast. After continuing to drive for a week with insufficient coolant for the heater to operate, the engine will likely have suffered much more damage than simple head gasket failure.

There's no easy answer to resolving this. A 'proper' repair (a reconditioned engine fitted by a competent specialist, with a full check of all ancillary systems) will cost more than it's economically sensible to spend on cars like this, and the 'affordable' solutions (a secondhand engine with unknown history and pedigree, fitted by a backstreet garage) leave you wide open to being scammed or ripped off; this could simply be throwing good money after bad.

Objectively, in their position I'd give serious consideration to selling the cars 'as is', and putting the money toward something decent. This does crystallise the existing losses, but the reality is that both owners have now already lost a great deal on their cars, and it's most unlikely they can recover these losses by throwing yet more money at finding a way to deal with a seriously damaged engine on the cheap.
 
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Whatever has happened to routine checks? When I started driving, checking the oil and coolant levels was something you did every day, before starting the car. These days, many drivers don't even bother to check these things at all, believing that any problem will be picked up when the car is serviced.

And on ANY car, uncommanded loss of heat should be dealt with by stopping as soon as possible and checking the coolant level.

This isn't meant as a criticism. I do feel sorry for both of these ladies; how are they supposed to know this? They don't teach such things in school, and they don't tell you this during basic driver training. Perhaps every driving lesson should start with a walkround and fluid checks, to instil good habits from the start.

From what's been posted thus far, I suspect both engines sadly are now toast. After continuing to drive for a week with insufficient coolant for the heater to operate, the engine will likely have suffered much more damage than simple head gasket failure.

There's no easy answer to resolving this. A 'proper' repair (a reconditioned engine fitted by a competent specialist, with a full check of all ancillary systems) will cost more than it's economically sensible to spend on cars like this, and the 'affordable' solutions (a secondhand engine with unknown history and pedigree, fitted by a backstreet garage) leave you wide open to being scammed or ripped off; this could simply be throwing good money after bad.

Objectively, in their position I'd give serious consideration to selling the cars 'as is', and putting the money toward something decent. This does crystallise the existing losses, but the reality is that both owners have now already lost a great deal on their cars, and it's most unlikely they can recover these losses by throwing yet more money at finding a way to deal with a seriously damaged engine on the cheap.



I know your right and if I’d take any car I’d go looking ASAP saying that my Gucci 500 is everything to me & as you know I’ve only had her 3 months! I have had troubles from day one starting with hatch wiring! I did keep my eye on the fluids from day one it was I think 2 weeks in that I noticed the coolant level had gone down however I didn’t know anything back then except to top up ..... thus my saga began!! My HUGE mistake was letting the garage I went to do the work on my car ... in my defence I was a little shocked ... worried .. and upset at what he had told me (HG) issue ... then I took it back to where I bought it I was told by their garage “nothing wrong “ with car/engine they had had the car for roughly a week! The day I collected the car I noticed the coolant was low I called them and was told the mechanic said it’s prob air in the system as apparently they had found a loose pipe!! Of course I jumped on it and bled the system and topped up!! then I ended up with rough idle juddering .. EMS time!! I diagnosed & replaced the injection coil pack & leads... that solved my issue!! For a while!
Then 3 days ago I noticed a leak coming from the left side of the engine I got up on ramps and had a look under car I could see leaks in 3 locations under the central block .. I’m assuming it’s the central block as it’s in the middle and directly under what I’m guessing is the gaskets.. so I did a chemical test in the coolant bottle (test tube rubber stopper one) pumped air in and the blue liquid slowly turned green ... so here I am!! A car that runs fine .. as long as I don’t go too far or the coolant bubbles and sizzles & pops it’s top!! Incidentally I had no warning no engine light on dash no beep nothing to inform me something was wrong and to check engine!!! I spent £7500 for this dam car I just want a solution that gives me a fixed car that I can drive and one that doesn’t give me a an OCD complex checking my coolant!!!
 
Whatever has happened to routine checks? When I started driving, checking the oil and coolant levels was something you did every day, before starting the car. These days, many drivers don't even bother to check these things at all, believing that any problem will be picked up when the car is serviced.


This isn't meant as a criticism. I do feel sorry for both of these ladies; how are they supposed to know this? They don't teach such things in school, and they don't tell you this during basic driver training. Perhaps every driving lesson should start with a walkround and fluid checks, to instil good habits from the start.

At the driving test, the candidate is asked two 'vehicle maintenance' questions. These are usually known as the 'Show me, tell me' questions. These include oil, coolant, brake fluid and screenwash checks, tyre pressure and condition, how to set heater to demist windscreen and rear windows, rear fog light, static & moving brake checks, all lights. There are a few more. Sadly, despite teaching this stuff for 15 years, I still can't remember them all. I give all my pupils a printed sheet, and urge them to keep it. The purpose of these is that the new driver should then continue to check these items, forever. But, like the theory test, many think this is to be learnt for a test, then it is done. Many instructors do not seem to emphasise the continuance of these, and of course, many new drivers immediately know better than their instructor upon passing their test. I meet a lot of new (ish) drivers with my corporate training role, sadly most have 'forgotten' the check items within a few months. I always teach that coolant and brake fluid loss should not be topped up, as this will mask the issue, and dilute coolant. Instead, they should seek professional help. All my past pupils are welcome to call me any time they have any issues with their cars, and a few have done so.

So, yes, the teaching is there, the ongoing routine is not. Sadly.
 
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I have taught my two fledgling driver kids (19 & 20!) a check that has been instilled in me after driving emergency service vehicles for 28+ years, wheather it has sunk in or not only time ( or breakdowns!) will tell....

The P O W D E R check
prior to 1st use or an extended journey.

P - Petrol/Diesel Level
O - engine Oil level
W- Water levels ( Engine & Screenwash)
D- Damage, lights,glass,tyres etc
E - Electric's, lights,Wiper/washers etc
R - Rubber, Tyres & Wipers

Not a super comprehensive list and only takes a short time to complete after you have done it a few (thousand!) times but could save you hours and £££'s later in you journey.

Paul m.
 
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