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Old 18-08-2019   #1
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Smile Mongol Rally 2020

Hello, This is my first post so please excuse me if it should be somewhere else!

I've just bought a Panda 4x4 2005 and will be taking it to Mongolia next year. However i want to get to know it a little better before I set out. I'm going to change the suspension as it's the part that will take the biggest hits. Who are the best suppliers for 4x4 suspension / springs etc.

Also I'd really like to have a look at engine options. 1.2 is the maximum but maybe a newer engine and ECU/key/ set, they seem to be reasonably priced via breakers on eBay. etc

The one thing I want to do is keep it simple. = An engine easy to work on and not too much electronics.

Thanks for your help. Chris
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Old 18-08-2019   #2
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

The diesel would be the better option more powerful, better lugging ability in rough terrain and wont lose power when fed with cheap fuel. Carry spare fuel filters.

BUT you can't simply swap a petrol to diesel without swapping all electrics from the engine donor car. You cannot escape electronics on a modern car. They are integral.

Suspension: Use OEM and carry a spare set. The fancy stuff handles better due to tighter tolerances internally. These wont make a blind bit of difference on bad roads and might even cause the dampers to overheat.

Rear springs are hard on 1.2 two wheel drive. You would be better with a 500 axle and its softer road springs. The 4x4 has it's own subframe but rides softer anyway.

Wheels keep them simple with easy to source tyres. The 13" size is getting rare so better with 14" steels. Buckled steels can be straightened. Buckled/cracked alloys are scrap.

4x4 drive shaft is noted for failing centre bearings. Get that replaced before leaving. Do all four wheel bearings as well.

Exhaust hangers. Fit new rubbers and carry spares.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 18-08-2019 at 11:16.
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Old 18-08-2019   #3
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

I thought the idea of the Mongol rally WAS to break down

don't the rules specify 1.2 or less ?

In my opinion the 4x4 isn't the way to go. Spare will be much harder to come by.


The car is the easy bit. Visas, sponsorship, IDP and so on.
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Old 18-08-2019   #4
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Thanks that's a great help. I guess i'm committed to a 4x4. It puts less strain on the front. especially if we're running a little heavy. I did have a look at a diesel but you read a lot of issues about poor quality fuel and particulate filter issues. So I'm going for the moment to stick to petrol. Will definitely follow the shockers and centre bearings advice.... Many Thanks
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Old 19-08-2019   #5
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

If the rally is 1.2 litre or less the diesel at 1300 is out of the question. Check with the organisers that the Panda 1200 is acceptable. It's actually 1242cc.

Take some octane booster for the petrol. The engines run OK on 95 RON but much better on 97 or 99 RON. Less than 95 is common around the world and has the thing running very low on power. It's not over-endowed to begin with.

Some say higher octane is pointless - small engine in a small car, etc. I would say the small engine needs all the help it can get.
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Old 31-08-2019   #6
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Quote Originally Posted by chrisfrm View Post
Hello, This is my first post so please excuse me if it should be somewhere else!



I've just bought a Panda 4x4 2005 and will be taking it to Mongolia next year. However i want to get to know it a little better before I set out. I'm going to change the suspension as it's the part that will take the biggest hits. Who are the best suppliers for 4x4 suspension / springs etc.



Also I'd really like to have a look at engine options. 1.2 is the maximum but maybe a newer engine and ECU/key/ set, they seem to be reasonably priced via breakers on eBay. etc



The one thing I want to do is keep it simple. = An engine easy to work on and not too much electronics.



Thanks for your help. Chris


Hi Chris, I have considered doing the Mongol Rally in mine, but I actually really love it too much! I am going to make use of the snow capabilities, plus, I donít have A/C so am going to do some northern touring in it first. Scandinavia, Arctic Circle, Iceland...
It is recommended to stick to petrol cars for the trip to Mongolia, as petrol is more readily available in Central Asia.
I would be interested in hearing about the upgrades you decide upon though, particularly suspension etc.
Jon.
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Old 31-08-2019   #7
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Yes sounds like a nice set of places to go. I've now sold my diesel panda and have a 2005 1.2 petrol engine 4x4 with 95k. started sorting the keys out and got a replacement ECU & BCU and key's locks from eBay which I fitted. Next job is the knackered suspension. a set of B4 bilsteins front and back should help a lot. I'm keeping it standard height. much higher and the roll will not be good. Much lower and we will hit plenty of rocks. I'd like to find a better sump guard so on the Hund for one of those. Have fun on your travels.
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Old 31-08-2019   #8
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Good morning Chris. Just wondered if you'd seen this thread by a forum member who did the Mongol Rally in a 4x4 Panda? Might give some idea of possible trouble areas along the way. Best wishes for your journey, R
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Old 31-08-2019   #9
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

I hope you have an exit plan.

The last thing I read about the Mongol rally, was that country and others along the way are getting really sick of us lot dumping crappy old broken down cars along the way or dumping them once the holiday is over.
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Old 02-09-2019   #10
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Why not drive there and drive back again?

Aluminium bash plates under engine and another under back subframe make a lot of sense. OEM suspension will keep it's nothing special damping abilities longer than something fancy. The better damping of (such as) Bilsteins is done with tighter tolerances inside the damper units. These give the damping oil a harder time so while they certainly improve the suspension performance, they will go off colour more quickly than standard units.
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Old 02-09-2019   #11
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Quote Originally Posted by ratty View Post
I hope you have an exit plan.

The last thing I read about the Mongol rally, was that country and others along the way are getting really sick of us lot dumping crappy old broken down cars along the way or dumping them once the holiday is over.
I'm in love with this little panda already and so it's there and back. ... I fully intend to continue to use it. breakers yard stuff is so cheap, I can't see why it wouldn't got on for ever!!
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Old 17-03-2020   #12
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

Just read this, I realize I'm quite late in answering but I'm happy to share my experience by writing a quick summary of our adventure; Iíll also start a thread on here as a sort of guide for anyone that wants or dreams about venturing on this trip.
I have taken part in the latest edition of the Mongol Rally (2019), and incredibly managed to complete the event and also drive the car all the way back home.

Our weapon of choice was a MK1 Uno from 1985; points ignition, carburettor, no ecu and manual fuel pump.. but at least it was a comfy 5 door ! picked it up for Ä700 from the original owners granddaughter after it had been sitting for the best part of 10 years;

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I did all the basic maintenance jobs that any car enthusiast would do to an unknown vehicle (timing belt, w/pump, gaskets and filters..) and made it roadworthy for not much money.

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After two years of tinkering with the car and some summertime ďtest runsĒ, a team was formed in Sep. 2018, and by April 2019 the car was ready to travel up north towards the UK for the final bit or rally prep until the start of the event in July down in Czech.

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We had planned to drive the famous but tortuous ďsouthern routeĒ via Iran and the ďStansĒ, and were hoping to have enough time (and enough car!) to drive all the way back after completing the event.
We incredibly managed to stick to these plans, driving for 44 days and covering 11k miles, reaching the finish line in Siberia in the last day of August.

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The event was finished, but not our adventure, so after a day of patching holes and throwing spanners at the car, we packed up and headed back west towards Italy.

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A total of 54 days, almost exactly 20k miles, countless breakdowns and a variety of little faults that were thankfully never terminal, all stuff that can be fixed with a bit of patience and some basic knowledge of old cars.
Most of my problems derived from bad quality fuels: depending on what route you'll chose expect to encounter the crappy stuff from Iran, Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan, where the average selling petrol is 92 octane, but most times the best you can find is 80. Also these are not RON ratings, so fuel can be even crappier than what the label suggests.
For normal cars this isn't much of an issue since they all have electronic fuel injection and variable ignition timing; in my carbureted old bucket of bolts I had none of that, and so had to get the tool kit out where most modern cars would just self adjust.

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Must have N.1:
make up a sump guard. make it as strong as you can and don't forget to put some holes in it for ventilation so the hot air from the engine can find its way out. I made mine out of 4mm thick steel. It weighted almost 25kg but was well worth it, I had to bash it back into shape at least twice during the trip, absolute life saver.
being the 169 panda quite a popular car It would not surprise me if you could find an off-the-shelf part for this purpose. I'd also suggest some sort of protection for the fuel tank, I also made this one myself.

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N.2:
suspension: as you mentioned this department takes a lot of abuse on this event, and I can sure confirm that. Again, the 169 panda, specially the 4x4, has a good aftermarket support so I'm sure you'll find something.
This wasn't the case for my Uno, and so the best solution for me was to fit new good shocks all round, Iíd suggest a well known brand here (mines were Monroe), and the coil springs from the Turbo Diesel version that had a 1.4 liter all iron engine with turbo and intercooler to support. If yours is a 4x4 I think aftermarket is your best bet. For a 2wd car try to find the springs for the Natural Power version. Do not fit spring spacers.

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Regardless on whether you'll be 1, 2 or even 4 people like us, the rear of the car will have an awful lot more weight to deal with, this is quite common for Mongol rally cars, broken rear springs even after only 5k miles are the norm.
to avoid this I went for helper springs, or towing springs whatever you want to call them. Much better than the old tennis ball trick, they are small springs that fit inside the rear coils and effectively help them support the weight, they are designed for cars that tow caravans. I was able to find a set on Italian Ebay for my Uno, and they were one of the best improvements in my opinion, the rear squat was minimum, leaving loads os suspension travel left, and we never suffered from broken coils or shocks for the whole length of the rally, and boy were we loaded !!

Attachment 1

Have a good look at your steering components and bring 1 inner and 1 outer tie rod. I rebuilt my steering rack right after buying the car and my aftermarket inner tie rods started failing in Uzbekistan. This was a big worry as the roads only get worse from there. Luckily we managed to do enough bodging to make it last the whole trip, but I regret skimping on spares on this one.
Iíd do new wheel bearings too for what they cost, the roads are crap and the car will be massively overloaded.

N.3:
Go with a petrol car. Diesel just isnít as readily available in the far east regions and when it is itís usually agricultural red diesel for heavy machinery and tractors, stuff that will kill any small common rail European car.
The only diesel vehicles youíll encounter along the way are lorries, (worth checking out the big Macks still working hard in Iran) and Land Cruisers; small passenger diesels are almost non existent.
As said before, petrol is usually 92 octane. If youíre lucky thereís 95, but Iíd say that 80 octane is the most common fuel out there. From Turkmenistan onwards youíll find that most cars donít even run on petrol but on LPG, in Uzbekistan that makes more than 80% of the vehicles. Mongolia and the Siberian part of Russia also like a good LPG car.

Also another word of advice: be sure your head gasket is happy, if not, replace it and bring a spare kit with you, and donít forget the bolts. I met many people with Fiats, and in particular had three friends with Pandas, one old and 2 newer 169 ones like yours, they all had head gasket failures, and for one of them that meant game over. This isnít to say that any Fire engine will have head gasket failures but they are known for being weak in that department and temperatures at that time of year can reach 40+ degrees; so if I were you, Iíd put good fresh coolant in it (bring some concentrated as spare) and make sure your heater works as youíll be using it loads, itís a life saver when youíre trying to climb an endless hill in 2nd gear in the middle of Asia in august. A good radiator health check is also a good idea, I went for a new Valeo unit, worked a treat.

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Change the oil the day before you plan on leaving, stick to the factory recommended stuff and bring a spare filter with you; if youíre planning on driving back that will be at least 15k miles on rough conditions so Iíd do an oil change for the return journey; I did it and it was good peace of mind. Oil is readily available anywhere you go, I had to bring a spare can since my car was on 20W50, not as common as 10 or 5w40, and also because my engine is a 35 year old survivor, and likes a drink.
Exhaust: if the hangers and clamps are not healthy it will fall off, itís just a matter of time. So be prepared.

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Wheels and tyres:
Iíd fit new tyres, of as good of a brand as you can find, and bring 1 max 2 spares, no more. I went with some Firestone Multihawk 2 which were the poshest option in my weird size (155/70R13) and itís just a normal cheap shopping trolley tyre, made in the same factory as Bridgestones just a couple of miles out of Rome. I had 2 punctures, 1 on which my fault (handbrake turn on a gravel road in KZ), and so was able to repair both and drive the whole of the rally (plus 5k miles of testing before that) without any major issues.

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No point in fitting off road tyres in my opinion, your choice if you want to go that way; the only thing they do really good is protect you from punctures, but they are otherwise very heavy, noisy and almost scary on the wet or when you have to stop in a hurry.
You are more at risk of getting a puncture if youíre running low on tread, hence the reason to go with a new set. Also get the car aligned ideally once is loaded and ready to go, crucial bit this. Pointless fitting new tyres with the car out of alignment, theyíll be gone in Turkey.
Another important thing is to remember to rotate tyres around, that will help them last longer. Mines are still good for at least another 10k miles after driving halfway across the world.

Rims: I went against everything people say and consciously fitted alloy wheels on the car, and those also made it all the way. I had 2 steel wheels as spares, but my strategy was just to look out for big potholes and I was lucky enough to be able to avoid the worst ones.
Those little MSWs are strong !

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With that we come to lighting: most people fit spotlights purely for looks, but if youíll be on a tight schedule like me youíll be very likely driving at night for many hours, and so a good set of spotties are a good idea. Donít fit them on the roof, that will just light up the whole bonnet right in your face when youíre trying to achieve miles in the nighttime, not a good idea. Instead, go for the front bumper. I was able to find a genuine accessory front grille from back in the day, with integrated spot lights. To that I added an SX front bumper with fog lights and upgraded the standard lights to H4 and fitted relays and fancy bulbs to all 3 circuits for more reliability. Bear in mind that in places like Mongolia cattle and camels love to cross the road at night, and if youíre trying to make up some time by speeding up a bit without some sort of high power lights, it will be too late to brake.
I had two close calls, pretty scary experience.
I had friends with only their standard lights, but their top speed was 50, when I could to 70 most times, quite a difference in stopping distance.
As weíre talking about the electrical system I think a new battery is a no brainer. Try to source a replacement voltage regulator for your alternator, those can fail with all the dust, and theyíre much lighter and smaller to carry than a complete spare unit. Leave alone the starter motor if itís working, and if it fails get out and push, not the end of the world (I had to do it for 4 countries !).

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Gearbox and bits: changing or not the clutch is your call, only you know your car. Like the suspension this is a component that will be overloaded for most of the trip, and considering the biblical distance to cover itís worth getting in there to evaluate whether itís worth changing it or not. My car got there and back with the original clutch, loaded up to the roof and with 4 people on board. We drove the famous Ak-Baital pass in Tajikistan at 4655 meters, and 3 other mountain ranges, no problem. Knowing that this could have been a point of failure I bought a spare with me and I was prepared to change it whenever.
Driveshafts: another component that will suffer badly, and also one for which parts will be mostly unavailable; so pop both shafts out, new grease, new boots and clamps and live happy.
Gear linkage: this varies from car to car, have a good look at the condition of yours as this is one of those weird things to fix if it goes wrong. No problems with cables.

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With this we come to the spares to carry, quite an important bit this.
You donít want to overpack as you still need room for your bags and camping gear, but at the same time you donít want to be stranded somewhere without that part that you knew you had but decided to leave under your bed.
Itís a fine line really, I decided to give priority to suspension stuff, since I knew from the start that weíd be very heavy, and so took front and rear springs plus 2 shocks. 2 top mounts and one front and rear wheel bearing. Iíd suggest to bring an extra air and oil filter (clean the air filter daily as you check oil and water) and a fuel filter if you have it. Spark plugs also a good idea, and donít forget at least 1 fire extinguisher. Top and bottom rad hose, maybe a thermostat.
For tools I bought my basic 50 piece kit plus screwdrivers and pliers. 1 club hammer (the tool I recommend the most) and a bottle jack (the smallest of jacks) plus some wood. I went overkill with a torque wrench expecting my car to do its head gasket, luckly it never did !

So in essence, try to be sensible, but use your brain as a car enthusiast, to figure out what itís worth taking and whatís not, I know it seems obvious, but priority vary from car to car.

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This ďbeing a car enthusiastĒ thing is an important point: most teams donít do a single thing out of everything I have listed, not one. And some of them get to the end without ever changing a tyre or a light bulb. The spirit of this event encourages participants to just pack up some drinks and go; the more the car will break down the more locals youíll meet, that was the point of the original 2004 edition, and I have massive respect for whoever follows this unwritten guideline.
I tried to find the balance between my mechanical sympathy for an old vehicle that has to cross half of the world mostly off road, but still trying to comply to the rule I just wrote about, simple as that; and even after all my work my car still very much looked like a dusty old Fiat, and during the rally it broke down at least 20 times and had to be taken to local workshops twice; 20k miles on rough roads will take their toll on any car.



As said before, the most used tool was a hammer, and the rest was a whole lot of wd40 and carb cleaner.

Iíd personally stick to the original guideline of going with a 2wd car, itís a lot more ďMongol RallyĒ than a 4x4, thatís for sure.

Iíll start a thread soon describing our journey day by day, for whoever likes this sort of things.
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Old 17-03-2020   #13
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Re: Mongol Rally 2020

These lights are the dog's. the beam is powerful and very narrow angle so ideal for adding to main beam. the pencil beam is narrow enough to only cause dazzle when aimed directly at oncoming drivers.

Ignore the guff about 30watts light power laser etc. They are actually 10 watt CREE LEDs but being LED almost all of that is converted to light. They have three light modes which are annoying. But an easy fix is shown on You Tube to disable the feature.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-U2-LED-Laser-head-Light-Motorcycle-Car-waterproof-Spot-Light-lamp-30W-J5X8/324017304280?epid=1369004016&hash=item4b70efb2d8:g lEAAOSwGshd-ywB

These are another option -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2Pcs-U7-Motorcycle-Headlight-Angel-Eyes-Light-LED-Fog-Spotlight-Switch-Kits-ZY/114017462409?hash=item1a8bf86889:g:kzcAAOSwJfFdwo0-
Same issue with the strobe/dimmer modes but these have angle eyes (daylights?) and still cost 2p.

I had a pair on a BMW motorbike that did around 25,000 miles and two winters with no problems. They were relay wired to operate with main beam but could just be wired to operate separately. On the Panda, they could be mounted into the front bumper "grille" with new brackets etc.

Most LED spots have a conical beam so are pretty useless on the car. 50% of the light goes into the sky dazzling everyone.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 17-03-2020 at 18:45.
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