Hello, new guy here. I registered because I've been thinking of replacing my current car (2009 Honda Civic) with a Panda but before I visit the dealership I hope to learn a bit more about Pandas. The car in question is a 2014 Panda 4x4 Antarctica that has gone a bit over 100000 kilometers.

At that mileage, can I expect any expensive services in the near future? Is anything particular likely to break?

How good is the heated windscreen? Is it standard on an Antarctica Panda?

Is there an aircon vent in the glove box? If not on a 2014 Panda, do any later years have this feature?

How far do the front seats recline? A few times a year I do a fairly long trip (approx, 12 hours travel time) and I sometimes like to park, lean back and sleep for a bit.How comfortable are the front seats? Same reason as above.

How long items can be loaded? Being Swedish I sometimes visit Ikea...

Since the steering wheel can only be adjusted up and down, how easy is it to find a good driving position?

In pictures I can see a 12volt socket on the center console. Are there more sockets anywhere else? Is there one in the boot?
On the center console I also see a USB port. Is there anything to consider when playing music from a USB stick?

Is there additional storage space under the boot floor?


Now a more philosophical question. My current car not given me any problems yet. Would replacing it be a bad idea?
I think that is all the questions I have for now. If there is anything more you think I should know please tell me.

You don't say what engine the car has. My 2013 4x4 TA has done alomst 120000 kms with nothing other than trivial issues and none anticipated.

There's no aircon outlet in the glove box (which is very small).

The front seats recline till they come up against the rear seat.

Narrowish items can be fed into the passenger footwell and can be up to 2.7 meters long (sorry - never been to IKEA).

Impossible to say for someone else if the seats are comfortable - we do 2000 kms each way to and from Italy twice a year with no problems but we're getting on and only drive for up to six hours a day, in 90 minute sections.

USB socket by handbrake is the only one in my 4x4 - my iPod works fine, controlled from steering wheel. No socket in the boot.

No space under boot floor (with spacesaver wheel in place).

Good luck.

Welcome to the forum

I could be wrong, but I think the Antarctica has the 1.3 MultiJet? If that's the case, I wouldn't recommend it if the majority of your journeys will be short trips, the diesels need time to get warm and decent runs at high speed to clear the DPF (I'm fairly sure a 2014 will have a DPF).

As with any car, investigate service history and look for evidence that fluids/filters have been changed.
There is the old phrase 'better the devil you know', but it can't hurt to take the Panda for a spin - extended test drive (over a couple of days) if such a thing is possible - and see what you think. Obviously a working car is easier to sell.

I should have written that you can feed long objects into the passenger's footwell when the seat is reclined, otherwise the limit's about 1.8 metres I think

elektrofredrik said:

Now a more philosophical question. My current car not given me any problems yet. Would replacing it be a bad idea?

Click to expand...

The Civic is one of the best engineered and most reliable cars you can buy. Much as I love the Panda, there's no way it comes even close to Honda build quality and reliability.

Personally, if I were looking to keep my maintenance costs to a minimum, I'd take a 2009 Civic over a 2014 Panda every time.

I've a friend who ran a Civic (from new) for close on 20 years and 250000 km; it needed nothing of significance beyond routine servicing.

At 100000km, a Panda will likely need more than a few parts replacing in the not too distant future. Corrosion is a real issue if you're planning to keep one beyond 10yrs; the core bodyshell is galvanised and should be fine, but watch out for rusting rear beams and perforated sumps.

Hello, and thank you for your answers.

I should have mentioned that the car in question has the Twinair engine. I have not considered a diesel engine for the reasons Eklipze3k mentioned.

Seat comfort is very individual, but if more people find them comfortable, then I might also find them comfortable.

Carrying objects up to 2,7m long should be sufficient for most Ikea trips.

Earlier today I called the dealership, and the salesman praised Pandas in general and this car in particular. This was expected, hearing similar words from you is more reassuring. I plan to go look at the car on Sunday, sadly no extended test drives, just a regular one, but I will check service hstory, look closely at the car and annoy the salesman with many questions.

jrkitching said:

The Civic is one of the best engineered and most reliable cars you can buy. Much as I love the Panda, there's no way it comes even close to Honda build quality and reliability.

Personally, if I were looking to keep my maintenance costs to a minimum, I'd take a 2009 Civic over a 2014 Panda every time.

Click to expand...

Your comment and "better the devil you know" is also part of my hesitation. If my current car had been a unreliable money pit this might be an easier decision.

elektrofredrik said:

I should have mentioned that the car in question has the Twinair engine.

Click to expand...

I'd suggest you do some serious research on this engine before committing to the purchase. Rough running and poor economy are commonly reported. It's a quirky engine to drive; some love it, others hate it (one of the mods here traded a brand new one in after a couple of weeks because he just couldn't live with it), so an extended test drive is a must.

Whilst the venerable 1.2 petrol FIRE engine has a well-deserved reputation for long term reliability, this is sadly not the case with the TA unit. Some folks have reported 100,000km+ of trouble free operation, but others have run into problems, particularly with the Uniair module, at half that mileage. There's a relevant current thread running in the 500 section just now; there have been numerous others like it. The engine seems particularly sensitive to having the correct type and quantity of oil; having the right oil viscosity/temperature profile is known to be essential for proper operation of the valve actuating mechanism.

You'll likely get many differeing opinions here, but I personally wouldn't contemplate running any TwinAir engined Fiat outside of the manufacturers warranty period. With 100000km on the clock, this is a car I'd be looking to sell, not a car I'd be looking to buy.

I'm sorry if this comes across as unduly negative, but I'd hate you to make a potentially expensive mistake.

Like most of us here, I love my Fiats, but the hard headed chartered engineer in me must acknowledge that Fiat and Honda are at opposite ends of the technical excellence spectrum, and that shows in the longevity of the cars.

But if you're just looking for a stranger on the internet to validate what you're proposing to do, I'm sure someone else will be along shortly.

Hi,
As you can see from my username, we have this very car, in a 63-plate (TwinAir Antarctica).

We’ve had ~28,000miles /45,000kms of relatively trouble free motoring, barring having the rear-brake ‘fix’ and a dashboard knocking/rattle has recently started to intermittently occur.

I’m less pessimistic about the TwinAir engine than some, in fact I find it has more than ample torque/power for a car of this type, has the ability to deliver good economy (when in Eco and driven at sensible speeds) and adds character to the city car segment. I’m conscious of issues some have experienced, the Uniair module is one area that has certainly created issues for a number of owners and is expensive, but to add some balance, do keep in mind that you do hear more negative messages online than you do from those who are ‘happy’.

On the motorway the car is very stable and the engine is very smooth - again, compared to other city cars. And for me that’s the thing. This is not a C-car segment vehicle, like a Civic. It’s a city car that happens to be better than most at those longer hauls. Kept to the urban and rural environment, it’s fantastic, on the motorway, it performs really well for it’s class, but things like the seats and lack of space to really stretch out start to make it a less appealing option if those journeys are long and frequent.

Honestly, I could happily run it as an only car, but it doesn’t eat up big journeys like a bigger car (but then a bigger car might be hard to park and get stuck in the snow!)

On some more mundane points:

- No, there is no heated screen in the Antarctica (and I doubt you’ll find one given it’s a special edition and built as such, rather than to order). Nor does it have heated seats - a faux pas in a car named after a cold environment, in my opinion!

- Only 1x 12v socket and 1x USB on the centre console on our 2014 63-plate Antarctica.

- No, there is not an air on outlet in the glovebox.

-Seats recline a decent way and you could likely have a moderately comfortable snooze, but there is a ‘hump’ around the lumbar when reclined which is weirdly absent when upright and when you’d appreciate the support! There are cars that go almost flat and some where the boot could be used with the rear seats flat that would be better for this.

- longer objects? I would suggest looking at roofbars, as we have on our car. The Wingbar style are very quiet, compared to the more traditional oval or square varieties.

A 100k km car will have done 20k kms / 12k Miles per year. This is the upper end of what you’d expect for a city car and, as mentioned in the comment above, I’m not convinced that the durability of the little Fiat is up to that of a larger car (it’s designed for more local duties) or indeed some other brands more associated with ‘big-miles’. Good luck, either way!

PS - if the penguin stickers have been removed, this is a sure sign of an ‘abusive owner’....! ???

I love my twinair but hey that's just me. I've never had so much fun driving. Everyone has different tastes though.

I feel I owe you an update.

Summary: On sunday I went to the dealership, decided to not buy the Panda and drove away in my Civic.

jrkitching said:

With 100000km on the clock, this is a car I'd be looking to sell, not a car I'd be looking to buy.

Click to expand...

Longer story: Before going to the dealership I had read this thread and written down questions about oil, servicing, UniAir modules and warranties, but I never got so far as to ask these. Jrkitching's answer above fit very well with something the salesman said. According to him this Panda had one previous owner, an older gentleman who had bought it new and now traded it in for an new Panda. When asked why (I assume a 2019 Panda is not much different to a 2014 Panda, except warranties) I got the vague answer "he problably wanted a new car". Is it common for Panda owner to buy new and trade in at the end of warranty?

Then there were the tires. It had one set of tires. All-seasons. I'm a firm believer that cars should have different tires for summer and winter, and the winter tires should be studded. Buying winter tires separately would mean further drain on my wallet.

Apart from this there were some minor issues.

The hood/bonnet release was broken so I could not look at the engine. Sitting in the driver seat I could not seem to find a comfortable position and I missed having an armrest on the center console. Also the pedals felt like they were slightly in the wrong place or at an odd angle.
A water bottle I sometimes bring on longer drives did not fit very well in the door pocket and I don't trust the shallow cupholders in the center console. The fuel filler door seemed over-engineered to prevent fuel stealing with several moving parts just waiting to break.

These things added up so I decided to not bother with a test drive. So I still don't know if I love or hate the Twinair engine. All I know is there seems to be no middle ground.

But it wasn't all bad. The seats reclined a lot a lot so I think I could sleep in the car.

Before even starting this thread I knew there was a difference in quality between Fiat and Honda but i Didn't think it was this big that people would say they'd take a 2009 Civic over a 2014 Panda. I'm gateful you took the time to answer my questions and I wish you many trouble-free miles with your Pandas.

Always nice to see a thread like this have a conclusion, even if it doesn't get you into a Panda at least you'll be happy

Linzilou said:

I love my twinair but hey that's just me. I've never had so much fun driving. Everyone has different tastes though.

Click to expand...

Me too. You can't define why they are so much fun to driver they just are. I bought a 1.2 for my daughter and she previously had a Micra which was a very nice drive. She was uncertain at first but now says the same thing so its noy imaginary.

I drove to Croydon and back to Kilmarnock in my 1.2 city cross without any sleep between journeys. Was at Lunar house for three hours with my partner and returned after. I'm 65 and did 900 miles. No aches and pains and felt OK after the trip. Seats are fine for a 5 ft 10 in. Even my partner was fine, she slept on the return journey.

I see you've decided not to go for this Panda so My observations are not going to be of direct use to you but maybe this will just make interesting reading for some one?

Back in 2014/15 I was coming to terms with deciding whether to spend a considerable sum on our 1999 1.9tdi Seat Cordoba estate to get a few more years of reliable motoring out of the old girl or "cut and run" buying a much newer vehicle. A hard decision to make as I've owned her from nearly new and knew every nut, bolt and brake pipe on her! After "doing the maths" Mrs Jock decided a new car was the way to go! (I am joking folks)

The obvious, direct replacement would be the Ibiza estate and having worked on a few newer diesels (son's 1.6CR Fabia being one) I decided Diesel was not the way to go (The diesel backlash affected my thinking too). So it was going to be a petrol. But petrol engines were at that time undergoing a massive change with all these small turbo units becoming popular and I knew very little about them. Lots of research needed.

My younger boy's wife had, by then, owned a Jazz for a couple of years and I look after it for her. This car, whilst being quite "ordinary" in many ways, has impressed me greatly with it's build quality and general engineering. It's a 2008 car so getting on a bit now with a number of possibly borderline, but not unsafe, issues. So when I rang to book it's MOT I mentioned (I am well known at this garage) that I was just slightly nervous about possible failure. Jock, said he, It's a Honda! Of course it'll pass! It did and when I went to pick it up he said to me, of all the cars we test Hondas probably fail less than any other vehicle. Because I liked it so much I had been looking at anything to do with Honda which I came across and the VTEC engines had interested me for some time. Also at that time the Civic estate caught my eye. I started looking into it and was mightily impressed. The engine which interested me was the 1.8 i-VTEC which uses a lot of the older VTEC features and VVT but in a very clever and interesting way. Also it's port injected so it's fuel delivery system is simpler and more "proven" than the latest DI engines. I went and drove one and really loved it. The most annoying thing I find about the old Jazz (in fact maybe the only thing) is it's vague EPS (I believe rectified on newer versions) There was no sign of this on the Civic - I am told there was a steering system upgrade from 2014 onward on the Civic and it was a later model I drove. I then, later, went back to the garage and spent a couple of hours crawling all over and under the one in the showroom, talking to sales people and service desk personnel, even managed to "nobble" a technician in the car park as I was leaving. A minor problem was that I didn't like the "diamond cut" wheel design or the fact that it used low profile tyres. Then I found that there was a base version with all the features I wanted - except cruise control - which had simpler silver alloys and "proper" tyres. I was sold. Took me some time to talk Mrs J round to the idea of a larger car, but with my daughter and her family returning from living in the US to live near Salisbury we could foresee several trips down south per year for many years to come and the bigger vehicle might make for more restful motorway driving. So the last step was to get Mrs J behind the wheel and then get one ordered (we'd decided to splash out on a brand new one - The base version was not easy to find used). Off we went to the dealer and DISASTER! Mrs J, who is one of the "vertically challenged" people of this world (she assures me "good things come in small packages" - and she's right) found that, when she had the seat fully forward so she could reach the pedals, she could not fully release the clutch pedal without jamming her knee under the dash panel! Also, because of the unusual instrument display, she could not properly see the speedo either. The salesman, who must have thought I was a "done deal" after all my interest, got their motability specialist to see if he could help but, over an hour later, we couldn't resolve it so had to give up. I was most surprised, Mrs J is not in any way "unusual", just short (about 5ft if I remember) and she has driven every other car we've ever owned (and there have been many) from my Mini and Anglia through Renault 20 and Austin Ambassador to our present Ibiza (and all the ones in between) without any problem. So, in the end, we bought the Ibiza Estate! Being a VAG product there are many aspects of it with which I'm familiar and I like driving it very much. It's been good on the long journeys with plenty of power and excellent fuel economy. The small turbo petrol engine has already had a turbo problem but a new, modified, turbo was fitted - under warranty, Phew! - and all now seems well. I do feel a little nervous about this engine though and am looking into engine oils in particular (Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C3 5W-30 being my current favorite - on a mileage/yearly change) - ah well, time will tell?

So what's the point of all these ramblings? Well, it's just to say that I hold the Honda product in very high regard indeed (don't know about the latest generation of engines with direct injection though - I read they've been having problems with petrol diluting sump oil in the 1.5 turbo version in very cold areas in the US. Haven't read anything about it over here though). We've run Pandas as "kid's" learner cars (very cheap to insure) and "family 2nd" cars (Mrs J runs around in a 2010 Panda Dynamic Eco at this time). Although I've never driven the newest Panda I think coming from a Civic to a Panda as your every day driver would be a bit of a shock. Whilst we have been delighted with all the Pandas we've owned I would not rate build quality or reliability in the same class as the Honda. "Horses for courses" though, If I have to do battle with the city centre traffic I'd choose the Panda every day! Also, now I have my Multiecuscan to help with diagnostics, The Fiats in the family (Panda and Punto just now), are proving easy and cheap to look after.

"Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C3 5W-30 being my current favorite"

Why is that? I was going to get that for the my Panda 1.2 but then I decided on Ravenol VMO 5W40.

I fully appreciate that Honda have a good reliability record but when they do fail they fail spectacularly. A friends 2010 Civic blew an engine in 2015 with a bill over £6000. The engineers report was a flaw in a con rod. Honda washed their hands of it and in no way helped the customer. Honda spares too are expensive. The Jazz too in my mind is a tinny and jiggly car, the Panda doors shut with a solid clunk whereas the Jazz doors shut like an tin can. My daughter's partner has a 2018 Civic, to my mind its horrible, rotten ride comfort, far too low slung and the interior is cheap hard plastic. Na I'll keep my Panda thank you very much

KPat said:

"Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C3 5W-30 being my current favorite"

Why is that? I was going to get that for the my Panda 1.2 but then I decided on Ravenol VMO 5W40.

Click to expand...

Oil choice is difficult isn't it? First off I decided to sideline all the supermarket cheapie brands and others I've never heard of or not seen advertised in more than one place. Not because some of them might be quite good but because you just can't know. (most of them would have been fine in my old Anglia I'm sure.)

Then I started looking around the big, "known" names - Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Millers, Red line, Comma, Petronas, etc - have a look on Opie's site, most of them are there. The "easy" option would be to just go with the Seat recommended Castrol Edge, and I still might. But it's relatively expensive. Mobil one also appeals very much (although I read somewhere - here we go with the "smoke and mirrors" again, sigh, that it's not as good a basestock now as it was when it originally gained it's "legendary" status? But I don't know for sure).

Then I remembered that I've been running my boy's Punto on Fuchs Titan GT1 5w-40 and the panda has had one fill of Petronas, when first bought and then one of the Fuchs. Both vehicles had their cam covers off when I was experimenting with cam belt changing (I wrote a whole lot about that) the top end on the Panda looked very clean indeed and the Punto, which I think had been somewhat neglected servicewise before we bought it looked much cleaner after it's second oil change. So the Fuchs has impressed me. I notice also that oil pressure comes up very quickly after starting on both engines even though the Panda will sometimes stand for 4,5 days or even a week between uses. Next I remembered that I had discovered, some time ago, (there was a press release) that Fuchs had replaced Castrol as the supplier of Quantum branded oils to TPS (the official VAG spares people). Then I had an email exchange with The Technical Manager at Fuchs. Who replied in considerable detail giving me a couple of options as I am on a yearly/mileage routine. His final recommendation was to go with the Titan GT1 pro C-3 5W-30 regardless of service regime as it is "formulated in a way that gives other subtle benefits" I've asked him to explain what this means and am awaiting his reply.

Finally, I think it very likely that other manufacturers are making equally acceptable products but I have found that the Fuchs is often on special offer somewhere. At this time a local dealer - Parks - is doing it at a very good price. I like to keep to the same oil in any given engine so, as the Fuchs seems to be both freely available and well priced to say nothing of being a VAG approved supplier, I think that'll do just fine for me. Unless?

murphyv310 said:

I fully appreciate that Honda have a good reliability record but when they do fail they fail spectacularly. A friends 2010 Civic blew an engine in 2015 with a bill over £6000. The engineers report was a flaw in a con rod. Honda washed their hands of it and in no way helped the customer. Honda spares too are expensive. The Jazz too in my mind is a tinny and jiggly car, the Panda doors shut with a solid clunk whereas the Jazz doors shut like an tin can. My daughter's partner has a 2018 Civic, to my mind its horrible, rotten ride comfort, far too low slung and the interior is cheap hard plastic. Na I'll keep my Panda thank you very much

Click to expand...

You're friend's engine failure must have been traumatic, both at the time and then when he/she had to consider the price of repair. I am on passing acquaintance with both the Honda indies here in Edinburgh and have never heard of this happening I think that was very unlucky. Although you would certainly not expect a car of that age to suffer such a failure I think you would be lucky to find any of the manufacturers, well maybe KIA I suppose? who would shell out. The only consistent failure I've become aware of is gearbox first motion shaft bearings - the Jazz being especially prone (ours is still quiet thank goodness - it's getting regular, maybe every 2 years, oil changes to keep it happy).

Also agree that, Yup, Honda genuine parts are pricey especially if you walk into your local dealer. I think this is true of Jap stuff in general though, I remember being floored at the cost of a set of valves for a Toyota which I was helping a friend with quite a few years ago. As with other manufacturers parts, there are some quite good deals on line, if you don't need things urgently, but they are generally just that wee bit more. Servicing I just use generic plugs, filters, etc but always use big names (Mahle NGK last time). So, to date, it's only been marginally more expensive to run than any of the other family vehicles.

Can't say I find the Jazz any more or less tinny and "jiggly" than any other small cars but I'll certainly agree that Becky's doors close with a much more satisfactory "thunk". Our Becky has a rattly knock from somewhere in the back - shocker bush? haven't found it yet, and a rattle which is hiding in the O/S dash area. I found the ride on the Civic estate was fine - maybe the hatch is different? don't know as I never tried one. As to interior trim, As long as it looks ok I'm happy. I'm much more interested in the mechanicals. I did notice that when Mrs J spilled some coffee on the new Ibiza's dash (softish touch plastic) it was much harder to clean up than the old Cordoba's hard plastic had been in the past. Really appreciated the removable after market carpets I paid extra for though! (we won't talk about the atmospherically charged silence that lasted for a few hours after my criticism of her clumsiness - all made up now though).

One outstandingly good feature of the Panda I find though is it's ability to cope with speed bumps. It's gives by far the best ride of any of the family fleet.

Kindest regards and I hope you are keeping well?
Jock

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Oil choice is difficult isn't it? First off I decided to sideline all the supermarket cheapie brands and others I've never heard of or not seen advertised in more than one place. Not because some of them might be quite good but because you just can't know. (most of them would have been fine in my old Anglia I'm sure.)

Then I started looking around the big, "known" names - Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Millers, Red line, Comma, Petronas, etc - have a look on Opie's site, most of them are there. The "easy" option would be to just go with the Seat recommended Castrol Edge, and I still might. But it's relatively expensive. Mobil one also appeals very much (although I read somewhere - here we go with the "smoke and mirrors" again, sigh, that it's not as good a basestock now as it was when it originally gained it's "legendary" status? But I don't know for sure).

Then I remembered that I've been running my boy's Punto on Fuchs Titan GT1 5w-40 and the panda has had one fill of Petronas, when first bought and then one of the Fuchs. Both vehicles had their cam covers off when I was experimenting with cam belt changing (I wrote a whole lot about that) the top end on the Panda looked very clean indeed and the Punto, which I think had been somewhat neglected servicewise before we bought it looked much cleaner after it's second oil change. So the Fuchs has impressed me. I notice also that oil pressure comes up very quickly after starting on both engines even though the Panda will sometimes stand for 4,5 days or even a week between uses. Next I remembered that I had discovered, some time ago, (there was a press release) that Fuchs had replaced Castrol as the supplier of Quantum branded oils to TPS (the official VAG spares people). Then I had an email exchange with The Technical Manager at Fuchs. Who replied in considerable detail giving me a couple of options as I am on a yearly/mileage routine. His final recommendation was to go with the Titan GT1 pro C-3 5W-30 regardless of service regime as it is "formulated in a way that gives other subtle benefits" I've asked him to explain what this means and am awaiting his reply.

Finally, I think it very likely that other manufacturers are making equally acceptable products but I have found that the Fuchs is often on special offer somewhere. At this time a local dealer - Parks - is doing it at a very good price. I like to keep to the same oil in any given engine so, as the Fuchs seems to be both freely available and well priced to say nothing of being a VAG approved supplier, I think that'll do just fine for me. Unless?

Click to expand...

I think the difference between the "severely hydrocracked" synthetic oils is marginal. The ACEA specs are just a starting point, then the makers add their mysterious additives. What put me off the Fuchs was the lack of technical info about their oil. They don't even put the word synthetic on the packaging.

But I am glad you are impressed with the Fuchs. I am going to try this Ravenol which is P.A.O. synthetic based, I might try Motul 8100 Xclean or Castrol Edge next time or maybe the Fuchs GT1 XTL