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Panda 2012+ 4X4 TwinAir (90)

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Panda 2012+ 4X4 TwinAir (90)

Linzilou said:
My 2 week old Waze 4x4 has the Goodyear All Season tyres.
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Thats the ones I am expecting. Recent tyre tests in Auto Express suggest these are perfectly good tyres in snow and perform 95%+ to the levels of the M=S tyres in snow and better in most other circumstances.

I have driven a large mileage and had most types of tyres either on my own or company cars. I do rate Continentals highly, Goodyear are still a very good make and we have these on our older Panda 1.2 wet and dry performance is outstanding. I suspect the Panda Cross versions including the Waze are slightly less good in snow than the standard 4x4 due to the increased width of tyre, but better the rest of the time. Panda 4x4 in the snow is so good I think you are unlikely ever to have any issues at all. Grip and traction in snow is astounding. I am probably going to get a set of 4x4 Alloys for my Waze and switch to the narrower tyre on the basis that mpg may well be better. I am going to try it first and see how things go. Adding the slightly wider tyres adds 1/4+ inch or so to ground clearance which some think is important. Where I live and what I do with a car means its not something I am concerned about.
 
The Panda Nut said:
Well done. I hope everyone on here will start giving it back to them - politely of course - and then the very poor quality misleading information might be improved. Clearly there is something going wrong in the UK as the Italians couldn't be nicer and I don't believe there is any intention to mislead. Why Fiat UK are so poor is a mystery. I would write to customer services as well and ask for a gesture of goodwill...

I have already tried the advertising standards agency but what a bunch of wofflers they are!

I am waiting to see if my new Panda is 5 or 4 seats. Its unclear... as ever.

Once I have said car in hand I am going to write in detail to Fiat pointing out 4 seats means its a four seater and that leather only comes from cows, and that floor mats means floor mats and correcting all the other blunders in their brochure and advertising.

Surely an accurate brochure and an up to date web site are basics for any manufacturer selling retail???? The abject failure of Fiat UK to deliver such basics says volumes about them and their attitude to business. Fiat Italy should wake up to this. The products are good and if they cant expand sales and provide the impetus for new products something is very severely wrong with their setup in my opinion.
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In fairness I have posted on the Fiat web site and they have come back (Direct from Italy) quickly and taken on board the issues I have raised, some already corrected on the site. They were very nice, polite and genuinely appreciative of the feed back. I have made the point that its the little things that really annoy people and that poor information must be losing sales. I was bowled over by the response given!! Well done Fiat anmd thanks for listening. It seems that Fiat UK are the people who are responsible for a fair share of the confusion.
 
johncard007 said:
To be fair the stuff they call 'Eco leather' is pretty good even though it is really 'Pleather'. :)
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I agree up to a point, its the plethora of Fiat dealers stating "Leather Seats" that I object to most. The steering wheel is definitely real genuine original leather from a dead something or other. I am not a fan of the leatherette stuff but it does look nice when new.
 
Herts Hillhopper said:
Fiat make no claim to have leather on the seats. They call that 'eco leather', and a web search will show that this is generally 'leather dust' in a plastic material. There is no mention of leather on the seats (eco or otherwise) in the price list specs.

They do claim to use leather on the gear knob (but not gaiter) and the steering wheel, and I think this is indeed real leather on my 4x4.

I believe you have ordered a Waze 4x4? In that case, the seat covers are 100% cloth with no side panels of eco leather, and there is no height adjustment for the driver's seat. (as shown on both the website and in the price list). The Waze 4x4 has a plastic steering wheel and gear knob.

That same price list shows clearly that only the 'real' Cross 4x4 and the 'City Cross' (2WD) have 3 seat belts and three headrests, and a split/fold rear seat as standard. By implication the Waze models (and other Pandas too) only have two rear seat belts and two rear headrests as standard, and a one-piece rear seat backrest.

There is no mention of any form of mats being included as standard in the UK price list for any of the PAnda variants.

Personally, I'd say Fiat have been pretty clear in their claims.. you can see these here https://www.fiat.co.uk/content/dam/fiat/uk/business/Fiat_Price_List_April2019.pdf (page 55 - also in screenshot below) . I also feel they (like most other car makes) have been equally clear on their website and brochures that the actual specification of cars sold in the UK may differ from those illustrated as there are different specs across different markets. Fiat are not alone in this regard.
Click to expand...

Good point about the let out clause, but let outs and small print are not purchaser friendly. I have asked my dealer to make sure that my Waze is delivered with the Qtronic paddles that are a £0 option on the Panda Waze... I hope they are lemon flavoured.
 
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Its a good thing you I and I presume many others are saying it will be interesting to see ...... Rather than buying something else where its quite clear what it comes with. The Motorvogue dealer website maintains the Waze 4x4 is a 5 seater. Its not, so someone is going to be disappointed. Fiat have great products but there is a poor delivery of pre sale information that is consistent and reliable. This must be costing sales and good will. I have offered to to give feed back so they can improve this. The response has been good so far.

I am not expecting much from the waze spec so I should not be disappointed when it arrives. I have added options to bring it to 4x4+_ standard equipment and hope all requests have been fitted, We shall see soon.
 
The Panda Nut said:
Thats the ones I am expecting. Recent tyre tests in Auto Express suggest these are perfectly good tyres in snow and perform 95%+ to the levels of the M=S tyres in snow and better in most other circumstances.

I have driven a large mileage and had most types of tyres either on my own or company cars. I do rate Continentals highly, Goodyear are still a very good make and we have these on our older Panda 1.2 wet and dry performance is outstanding. I suspect the Panda Cross versions including the Waze are slightly less good in snow than the standard 4x4 due to the increased width of tyre, but better the rest of the time. Panda 4x4 in the snow is so good I think you are unlikely ever to have any issues at all. Grip and traction in snow is astounding. I am probably going to get a set of 4x4 Alloys for my Waze and switch to the narrower tyre on the basis that mpg may well be better. I am going to try it first and see how things go. Adding the slightly wider tyres adds 1/4+ inch or so to ground clearance which some think is important. Where I live and what I do with a car means its not something I am concerned about.
Click to expand...

I haven't had a 4x4 before only the normal Panda so definitely looking forward to testing it out next time we get snow in Yorkshire.
 
Prepare to be totally amazed. I did the Sparrowpits old road in at least 6" of snow. and it was like driving on dry tarmac. This is a 1:6 hill Its so good I still cant believe it. Last spring we had 12" and it was still ploughing through where literally nothing except tractors could get. All the BMW's were stuck (he he he)
 
We just picked up our cross, it's come with 175 conti eco contact tyres rather than the expected 185 winter tyres.

We were shown the bulletin from fiat stating that after April 2019, all 4x4 cars would have summer tyres to improve co2 emissions by 7g.
 
Neb1 said:
We just picked up our cross, it's come with 175 conti eco contact tyres rather than the expected 185 winter tyres.

We were shown the bulletin from fiat stating that after April 2019, all 4x4 cars would have summer tyres to improve co2 emissions by 7g.
Click to expand...

Oh’ well, a great opportunity to get some Nokian snow tyres and prepare to be amazed.
 
gullyfoyle said:
Oh’ well, a great opportunity to get some Nokian snow tyres and prepare to be amazed.
Click to expand...

But it's a bit strange that the extra ride height claim of the cross over the 4x4 is no longer valid. It doesn't really matter for us, but other people might not be too pleased at having to spend another £300+ to get what they originally ordered.
 
The Panda Nut said:
Thats the ones I am expecting. Recent tyre tests in Auto Express suggest these are perfectly good tyres in snow and perform 95%+ to the levels of the M=S tyres in snow and better in most other circumstances.

I have driven a large mileage and had most types of tyres either on my own or company cars. I do rate Continentals highly, Goodyear are still a very good make and we have these on our older Panda 1.2 wet and dry performance is outstanding. I suspect the Panda Cross versions including the Waze are slightly less good in snow than the standard 4x4 due to the increased width of tyre, but better the rest of the time. Panda 4x4 in the snow is so good I think you are unlikely ever to have any issues at all. Grip and traction in snow is astounding. I am probably going to get a set of 4x4 Alloys for my Waze and switch to the narrower tyre on the basis that mpg may well be better. I am going to try it first and see how things go. Adding the slightly wider tyres adds 1/4+ inch or so to ground clearance which some think is important. Where I live and what I do with a car means its not something I am concerned about.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I know All Season tyres have to be a real compromise, but I was advised to try Vredestein Quatracs on my 2006 4x4, and they've always been great, particularly on the muddy bits off-road - and when it really does snow Panda has invariably been just about the only thing round here actually going in the direction originally intended. The (hoped for) Goodyear All Seasons sound similar. Fiat must know that many of their customers buy a 4x4 to go, well, where 4x4 really is the only answer - and offer a tyre option. If my new Waze arrives with summer tyres some of that discount may well have to go on a spare set of wheels. I was going to get a "real" spare too - so is that six extra wheels I'll need?! Oh well, probably only six weeks to wait before I find out! Just thinking ahead now. I remember "Panda 1" came with great tyres fitted as standard for my purposes, but - by the time we needed new ones ... they'd been discontinued.
 
Well Noop arrived today, without his electric mirrors..... Fortunately I can easily reach the manual adjusters so it is not a deal breaker.

Radio has N speakers. I think all 6 are present and working but the tweeters are so poor anyway that its difficult to tell. Apart from the absence of plastic seat panels there seems to be no difference from the standard 4x4. It has 4 seats and 4 belts, a single piece seat back and black carpet. I feel the seats are better for being 100 % cloth but its all a matter of opinion. Leather wheel and height adjustable seat were only a few pounds and just have a nice feel. It looks much better in the flesh than pics, I quite like the stainless exhaust tip that I was not expecting. Now all I need is a steep hill on which to test the hill descent control. I am sure it will be a great addition to effecting safe exit from multi storey car parks if its icy.... Have not a clue what else it might be for.

What I can say is its fitted with Continental Contact 6 SUMMER tyres, and what a revelation it makes to the drive. It is so much better. What will happen in snow is another matter. I will have to get some winter tyres if the weather goes bad. This tyre is the highest rated by Auto Express who seem to be reasonable judges on this subject and I already have some on my Bravo. The economy on that suffered relative to its previous Bridgestones but there is no disputing good steering response and excellent grip especially notable in wet conditions. The car is clearly more stable under braking and better on corners but some of this may be due to the wider tyre size too.

The rubber cover in the fuel flap was also absent, so the one off the old car mysteriously joined me. After drilling a 13mm hole in the flap hinge plate it pushed straight on. Why they feel this is not a good idea any more defeats me. Also notable it has the counter-weighted caliper bolts fitted, As Pandatonio's brakes had just started to groan I am pleased about this.

This engine is much rougher, noisier and generally more vocal than the last one and its notable that its definitely quicker too. Even in Eco it is getting along quite well. I have no doubt it will be faster once run in, not that that was needed.

Climate control again is nice to have and if it works as it did in the 100HP I will be delighted. CBC is there with some nice black boxes behind the mirror that will help keep the sun out of my eyes. So far it has minded its own business and not interfered with my life. I hope it stays that way. I will now seek an insurance discount.

A very slow run today up the A17 resulted in 43.7mpg which is OK for a brand new engine and should improve. Further updates to follow.
 
pandared said:
Interesting. I know All Season tyres have to be a real compromise, but I was advised to try Vredestein Quatracs on my 2006 4x4, and they've always been great, particularly on the muddy bits off-road - and when it really does snow Panda has invariably been just about the only thing round here actually going in the direction originally intended. The (hoped for) Goodyear All Seasons sound similar. Fiat must know that many of their customers buy a 4x4 to go, well, where 4x4 really is the only answer - and offer a tyre option. If my new Waze arrives with summer tyres some of that discount may well have to go on a spare set of wheels. I was going to get a "real" spare too - so is that six extra wheels I'll need?! Oh well, probably only six weeks to wait before I find out! Just thinking ahead now. I remember "Panda 1" came with great tyres fitted as standard for my purposes, but - by the time we needed new ones ... they'd been discontinued.
Click to expand...

A 13 inch wheel or a 14 inch space save will fit in the wheel well or a 45 series 15inch tyre. A standard 15 inch 4x4 wheel and tyre dont go in. Be warned.
 
The Panda Nut said:
A 13 inch wheel or a 14 inch space save will fit in the wheel well or a 45 series 15inch tyre. A standard 15 inch 4x4 wheel and tyre dont go in. Be warned.
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Thanks. Same with Panda 1 - so I have to carry just the space saver thingy in the space provided, and always have a proper spare handy at home... theory (tested) is that thingy gets me home to proper spare and then I can get any repair done in my own time and when it suits me. Things here invariably break or go wrong at inconvenient times, and at times when nothing is open to mend them ... and places that can mend them are miles away anyway... Oh, and my cars of similar type will always have different sized wheels - Panda 1: 14", Panda 2: 15"
(Panda 2 is at status 30!)
 
A3jeroen said:
Beware! Fitting a spare with a different circumference will kill your 4x4!

gr J
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I know. We sold a really good Series 2a Landriover to a local garage many years ago, they killed it with weird and odd tyres very quickly indeed.. just because they happened to have them.
So now if I do keep the two cars I'll need two different sized spares at home.
A proper spare used to fit very snugly somewhere, in all cars. Best place was under bonnet where you could see it was OK and always get at it easily. Dear Lada had that.
.
 
The Panda Nut said:
Well Noop arrived today, without his electric mirrors..... Fortunately I can easily reach the manual adjusters so it is not a deal breaker.
Click to expand...
The Waze 4x4 was always shown as having manual, and non-heated door mirrors. Only the City Cross, 'full' Cross and the 'regular' 4xx get heated and electrically adjusted ones.

The Panda Nut said:
Radio has N speakers. I think all 6 are present and working but the tweeters are so poor anyway that its difficult to tell. ....
Click to expand...
On my regular 4x4 it was very easy to tell - no 'fader' option in the radio menus, and no speaker grilles on the rear doors fro sound to come out of!

The Panda Nut said:
Now all I need is a steep hill on which to test the hill descent control. I am sure it will be a great addition to effecting safe exit from multi storey car parks if its icy.... Have not a clue what else it might be for..
Click to expand...
Hill descent control only really needed and works on something nearing 1:2 slope... somewhere where your foot on the brake pedal might cause it to slide with locked wheels on a loose offroad surface... and (like 4x4 drive and ABS too), not likely to work in ice... at least one wheel needs to have good grip for the system to be able to tell what's going on.
 
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A3jeroen said:
Beware! Fitting a spare with a different circumference will kill your 4x4!

gr J
Click to expand...
Note also a 14" wheel will not fit the front wheels of the 4x4 Pandas as they have larger diameter brake discs than any other Panda, and so need the added clearance from the 15" wheels (257mm discs compared to the 240mm on the others. The previus model Panda 100HP also used to use these same, larger discs)
 
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