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Old 20-01-2018   #16
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

I was wondering if anyone knows where the Uni-Air unit is on the car and possibly where the filter might be placed? I'm hoping it might be a dirty or blocked filter, hoping its not the actuator!!

I had it serviced by Fiat Ancaster in September 2017, they have a service menu so i thought i should go for the 299 full service, plugs, oil, filter and all the other bits they are supposed to check over, I wonder if that sluggish performance when i got it back was anything to do with the problem? it did seem to start ok in the mornings though.
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Old 20-01-2018   #17
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Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Twinair valve actuator oil filter
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/454649-twinair-valve-actuator-oil-filter.html

I really would investigate your oil though
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Old 20-01-2018   #18
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Thanks Mercky, I'm assuming Fiat used the correct oil in the service but just in case, what oil is recommended for a twin air?
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Old 20-01-2018   #19
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Selenia K c3 grade, mine had those symptoms yes. But there is so many variables in what could be causing it. As I've mentioned previously my clutch linkage up by the peddle fractured and caused lumpy idle and irratic driving but not sure this would be running only one cylinder though. My initial thoughts when i got the symptoms again were like you.....coil packs, spark plugs, new oil and filter and also checking my peddle linkage again. It's only when I got a specialist fiat/alfa garage to do a diagnostic it threw up the actuator fault.
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Old 20-01-2018   #20
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/l8EgusjfefIBC18w1

Have a look though my photos to see the small filter/strainer on top of the engine under the air box. Mine turned out to be clean.
You'll need a narrow 15mm socket (got mine from the bike section in halfords)
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Old 20-01-2018   #21
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Quote Originally Posted by UFI View Post
If the car is parked too long oil will continue draining from the UniAir unit.
But if that's the case couldn't you overfill the oil if you check it before all the oil has drained to the sump?
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Old 20-01-2018   #22
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
But if that's the case couldn't you overfill the oil if you check it before all the oil has drained to the sump?
There've been a couple of other posts recently advising that it's hard to get a consistent oil reading on the TA due to drainback. One went so far as to say the level shouldn't be checked when the engine is cold .

If I owned one of these, I'd check it after an overnight stand, and aim to keep it at the max mark on the dipstick. I'd never let it go below the halfway mark when checked that way, but I also wouldn't want to fill it to the max with a recently-stopped engine.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 20-01-2018 at 19:56.
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Old 20-01-2018   #23
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
There've been a couple of other posts recently advising that it's hard to get a consistent oil reading on the TA due to drainback. One went so far as to say the level shouldn't be checked when the engine is cold .

If I owned one of these, I'd check it after an overnight stand, and aim to keep it at the max mark on the dipstick. I'd never let it go below the halfway mark when checked that way, but I also wouldn't want to fill it to the max with a recently-stopped engine.
That's what I was wondering. I have always allowed the oil to drain - I wouldn't want to overfill the oil. I try to keep it above halfway. It's full at the moment, though, as it has just had a service.
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Old 21-01-2018   #24
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Well I found that the 3.2Litre capacity when filling from an oil change put the level on the dipstick to max after running the engine to fill the filter. This was after letting the old oil drain for an hour whilst having lunch. So surely as long as its on max when you check it after standing you should still have 3.2L of oil?
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Old 21-01-2018   #25
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

The oil continues to drain from the UniAir unit for weeks. My car will start fine if left standing for up to about a week, after that there's not enough oil in the actuator to get a smooth start. If left for say four weeks it takes maybe 60 seconds of cranking followed by another 60seconds of rough idling -this then takes 1-2km for the car to start driving normally again. The same symptoms as the OP, which is why I suspect the UA unit/ filter or oil quality. I sometimes also get a bit of white smoke out the exhaust.

Exactly how much oil is held in the actuator and filter I don't know, but sitting for the usual oil drain time definitely doesn't drain 100% of the oil.
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Old 21-01-2018   #26
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
But if that's the case couldn't you overfill the oil if you check it before all the oil has drained to the sump?
Not if it's designed to be checked within 5 mins of shut down. The USA owner's manual for the MA engine states to check within the 5mins. My TA manual makes no such mention, perhaps someone with a newer car can check if it's been updated.

They obviously don't intend for you to wait for all the oil to drain to the sump because that would be completely impractical.
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Old 21-01-2018   #27
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

This has made some interesting reading, thanks everyone. Love this forum
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Old 21-01-2018   #28
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Quote Originally Posted by UFI View Post
Not if it's designed to be checked within 5 mins of shut down. The USA owner's manual for the MA engine states to check within the 5mins. My TA manual makes no such mention, perhaps someone with a newer car can check if it's been updated.

They obviously don't intend for you to wait for all the oil to drain to the sump because that would be completely impractical.
Maybe it's also to do with the viscosity of the oil used. I use 0W 30 in my car as that's the one recommended in my manual. I understand from the forum that some with earlier MA and TA cars are using 5W 40 because that's the oil recommended in their manual.
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Old 21-01-2018   #29
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
Maybe it's also to do with the viscosity of the oil used. I use 0W 30 in my car as that's the one recommended in my manual. I understand from the forum that some with earlier MA and TA cars are using 5W 40 because that's the oil recommended in their manual.
I don't buy this whole oil viscosity argument; personally I think it's just an excuse the dealerships fall back on to try to avoid responsibility for actually getting the spanners out and fixing the root cause of the problem (whatever that is).

Oil viscosity is hugely temperature dependent, even for a modern multigrade. The difference in viscosity between 0C and 10C is far, far greater than the difference between a 5W40 and an 0W30 at any given temperature.

However, an 0W30 will give the engine a small but measurable improvement in emissions performance, and my guess is that's why the change was made.

So I'm raising the b***s**t flag on the 'you can fix this by changing the oil' argument.

From a technical perspecive, it makes no sense.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 21-01-2018 at 10:24.
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Old 21-01-2018   #30
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Re: Twinair cold start problem, HELP!

The wrong oil was put in my TA at its first service and it was really rough at start up, fairly sure it was 5w
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