Fantastic write up Satyr Icon, awesome even..... You have de mystified a lot of stuff for those of us who like to repair our own cars. Thanks again!

Re: Newbie power steering fix Torque sensor replacement

Well, finally replaced the steering torque sensor in our Panda today (25/06/2016)
Car is 2005 and has done approx. 109,000 KM
I printed out and followed the excellent write up by Satyr Icon as in previous posts. Took me about 2 hours including all tools away and a short road test.

I have posted some pictures, and some observations....
You will need LARGE circlip pliers! I bought a 250mm long pair with the blue handles in one of the photos. If you have any of the other pictured types, STOP! You will definitely need bigger ones. Don't even think of starting the job without them. I also used a zip tie to hold the handles together when the circlip was compressed to make it a bit easier. Circlip goes in with bevel facing out.

There are 2 small triangular pointers moulded into the torque sensor plastic on the upper side. A picture shows them not quite lining up at first when dismantling. A small bump on one of the front road wheels aligned the marks and then I removed the old sensor using a small pry tool.

New sensor then fitted exactly aligned and I fitted the small wire spring ring over the splines and removed the lock pin. The steering was perfectly aligned form the first attempt following this procedure.

If you are reasonably competent, this is a very easy repair! The hardest parts by far are the circlip and fiddly upside down screws on the steering column shroud.

A short internet search will show this is NOT a Fiat problem, but common to all cars using similar torque sensors. As time goes on and the mechanical parts wear inside more and more of there will give trouble and eventually fail. This is not a fault of Fiat but the nature of the electric power steering used on many makes of cars.

I hope the original guide from Satyr Icon and these observations will enable many more owners to repair their Fiats without big expense. A good serviceable car can be scrapped because of big repair costs, this may help to avoid this for some owners. All we need now is a similar guide to the Dualogic auto gearbox...... Any takers?

I am indebted to the Fiat forum for a wonderful source of help, also Satyr Icon for his excellent work and "give it a go" attitude.

Bergi.

Further to the above post about my successful steering torque sensor replacement, here is the old faulty one cut up to show the innards....

As you can see it's electro/mechanical and the small copper "fingers" track around on the carbon "rings" when you turn the steering wheel. You can see the carbon "filings that have worn away next to the tracks. Easy to see how this could cause electrical malfunction and electric power steering failure...

Been 24 hours now and repair still working perfectly!

Also, for those wanting to give this very easy repair a go here is a link to someone performing a similar torque sensor replacement on a Ford. The video goes into some detail about getting the alignment right but it's not that hard...



As you can see the sensor is almost identical to the Fiat one and although in the video an alignment tool is used, you do not need one.

So, an easy, cheap repair for the seemingly catastrophic steering failure on our Fiats.
Bergi

Bergi said:

Further to the above post about my successful steering torque sensor replacement, here is the old faulty one cut up to show the innards....

As you can see it's electro/mechanical and the small copper "fingers" track around on the carbon "rings" when you turn the steering wheel. You can see the carbon "filings that have worn away next to the tracks. Easy to see how this could cause electrical malfunction and electric power steering failure...

Been 24 hours now and repair still working perfectly!

Also, for those wanting to give this very easy repair a go here is a link to someone performing a similar torque sensor replacement on a Ford. The video goes into some detail about getting the alignment right but it's not that hard...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubP30rSK_AE

As you can see the sensor is almost identical to the Fiat one and although in the video an alignment tool is used, you do not need one.

So, an easy, cheap repair for the seemingly catastrophic steering failure on our Fiats.
Bergi

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thanks,
I don't recall seeing this thread before..

anyway.. I've only got a couple of questions;

1, is it possible with steering wheel / airbag in place

2, the "circlip" is it just a bent/end spring clip.. or actually got the 2 "eyes"?

cheers,
Charlie

Hi, happy to answer your questions...
Yes, the whole steering wheel with airbag and upper column and stalks comes off as one when you have removed the large circlip.
That circlip does have the two "eyes" at the end that the tips of the circlip pliers engage in. Sorry, I tried to get a picture of it during removal but it was blurred.
The clip is big and strong because it holds the upper and lower parts of the steering column together.
As Saryr Icon and I have indicated, removing the circlip is by far the hardest part of this repair and with big circlip pliers, it's not that hard.

Bergi

Bergi said:

Hi, happy to answer your questions...
Yes, the whole steering wheel with airbag and upper column and stalks comes off as one when you have removed the large circlip.
That circlip does have the two "eyes" at the end that the tips of the circlip pliers engage in. Sorry, I tried to get a picture of it during removal but it was blurred.
The clip is big and strong because it holds the upper and lower parts of the steering column together.
As Saryr Icon and I have indicated, removing the circlip is by far the hardest part of this repair and with big circlip pliers, it's not that hard.

Bergi

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that's perfect thanks,
charlie

This thread is excellent thank you all involved I purchased a 2007 panda 1.1 with only 40k miles & its so much fun to drive! After having large suv's etc in the past ! But now the power steering is making a grumbling vibration when sat still and dry steer or when I pull off slowly so going to have a go at fixing it myself with help from this thread only thing is I cannot find any evolution3-srl. Seller on eBay and as I'm on a budget does anyone know where I could get the part cheaper than what is listed ? Thanks all in advance ?

You are porbably right to do the repairs but the steering is unlikely to suddenly pack up. Before you do the strip-down make 100% sure the main battery is good and the alternator is charging properly. A "wired in" voltmeter (not simply a test meter) will help you to judge if the symptoms are systemic or steering related.

Thanks Dave for your reply I didn't notice it on the test drive before I purchased it ive only had it a few days thought it was the brakes at first and was going to inspect when I got her home as was told she was sat for a while and brake binding was an advisory on the mot? it wasn't until researched the net and came across this owners group and thread about the torque sensor ? But thanks for your help ?

Deano notts said:

Thanks Dave for your reply I didn't notice it on the test drive before I purchased it ive only had it a few days thought it was the brakes at first and was going to inspect when I got her home as was told she was sat for a while and brake binding was an advisory on the mot? it wasn't until researched the net and came across this owners group and thread about the torque sensor ? But thanks for your help ?

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If it had been sat for some time before you bought it, and the battery allowed to go flat, the battery will be weak and usually the first thing to show is power steering.

So before rushing to attack the steering, check the battery thoroughly first. After a couple of weeks it may recover enough to be ok, although it will probably give up early winter.

Satyr Icon said:

Hi portland_bill, Bergi and Sweetsixteen,

There is no need to remove the steering wheel from the steering shaft and the sensor is not housed under the horn push/airbag thing.

The sensor is in a housing approximately half way between the back of the steering wheel and the floor and the steering shaft passes through the centre of it. It is actually behind the dashboard and below it. Access is by removing lower dash closing panel (2 posidrive screws) and the lower steering column plastic cowling (3posidrive screws, 2 upper and 1 at the bottom). This lower cowling also has two points where it clips to the upper plastic cowling along the joint line. You must force these apart but they clip back together on reassembly OK. Getting the lower cowling off the column height adjustment handle is a fiddle but it will happen after a bit of trial and error.

What you will see is a mild steel guard secured by two female TORX head bolts.
Remove these and the shield. Now the sensor housing flange is visible and the huge and very strong circlip will be visible.

Be aware that if you intend to replace the sensor you should do all of the above in order to get a look at the colour of the sheath coming out of the flange. This sheath contains the wires from the sensor and terminates at an eight pin plug.
These sensors are available with four or five different colour sheaths.
Basically, if your sheath is green as mine was, buy a green sheath sensor,
if it's yellow, order a yellow. The colour of the sheath identifies which sensor you have. Confirmation is necessary before ordering and therefore the dismantling mentioned above is also necessary.

The bunch of wires coming from the column in the sheathing are plugged into a box with other plug terminals. The eight wire plug ( only six wires are actually used ) is locked into its' docking port with a smaller plastic wedge which is a different colour to aid identification but is part of the plug body. This securing wedge MUST be prised out before attempting to pull the plug from the terminal port. Don't worry about mashing it a bit, you get a new plug with a securing wedge on the new sensor.

All of the above is what you have to do in order to identify which colur sheathing your sensor has so you can order the correct sensor. I mention the plug stuff because you may want to try pulling and re-plugging the terminal a few times to clean the contacts. It's a long shot but you may as well try.

Getting back to this air bag thing, everybody should be aware that not all capacitors, particularly electrolytic ones, discharge simply by depriving them of current. Some caps. will hold residual charge for weeks or even months until they are properly discharged to earth.
A method that may work would be to leave the ignition key in the ON position after disconnecting the supply/battery. Very difficult to say for certain without schematic (wiring diagram).

Will post two complete mini journals with all the detail. Both are probably essential reading but I have to stress again that the posts from 'bluepanda' and 'captainsaltry' should be read as well. There is a link to a Dormans video which shows how to fit the sensor with the entire steering column removed (totally unnecessary - removal by disconnection from the steering rack may make FIAT re-programming mandatory.

04:30 hours in UK gotta go to work, turn a wheel while Venus is by other dogs enjoyed.

Regards
Satyr Icon

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Hi where can i find the mini journals please.

@dawnc1

We know more about the power steering now than we did 4 years ago

It's possible you need a new sensor, but unlikely.

Steering shacking
Steering wheel moving on its own
Steering cutting out at full lock only in on direction
Are about the only symptoms that may require one.

Reading the error code is misleading

As a calibration lost
Dirty connector
Or low voltages to the torque sensor

Will all will show up as a faulty sensor if you read the code. Although the calibration lost and dirty connector are both fixed as a byproduct of changing the sensor

Last time I looked about a year ago sensors weren't that cheap even dodgy China supplied ones

We had steering the steering stall and faults registered. Battery changed but problem returned within days. System voltage checked under load and found the alternator was not charging properly. By the time I was able to get parts and the time to fix it, the problem was happening every morning after a cold start. New alternator fitted, problem solved and has never returned. You can get them brand new for under £100.

My advise is monitor the system voltage during normal use before swapping batteries. I suspect we replaced a perfectly good battery.