I took delivery of my new Panda Easy yesterday. It is certainly different to my 09 Panda. The whole car has changed, the suspension is a lot more resilient, there seem to be a lot of mechanical changes such as the wishbone design, the body shape is somewhat different. I have only done 50 miles in it so far, and the only problem I have at the moment is that the engine management system tends to anticipate you engaging the clutch and revs up, once the clutch is engaged it drops the revs again. When pulling away from a junction I find that this makes the car launch itself forward and as soon as you apply the throttle it dies for a brief moment (I find it very off-putting to have to be heavy footed to get the car to pull away), dipping the clutch then makes the engine race away momentarily. Providing you don't touch the clutch pedal the throttle pedal comes back to normal direct feeling after a few seconds. Has anyone else noticed this happening, it is like a flat spot on an engine which has an old type, worn out carburetor. The cars has the four cylinder Fire engine.

My other dislike is the position of the handbrake, I find it to be slightly too far back, it is not ideally placed for those with short legs like my wife.

Agree re the handbrake.. I'd prefer an 'old fashioned' lever.

David Bliss said:

and the only problem I have at the moment is that the engine management system tends to anticipate you engaging the clutch and revs up, once the clutch is engaged it drops the revs again. When pulling away from a junction I find that this makes the car launch itself forward and as soon as you apply the throttle it dies for a brief moment (I find it very off-putting to have to be heavy footed to get the car to pull away), dipping the clutch then makes the engine race away momentarily.

Click to expand...

The Mrs's new Lounge does this, I find dies a bit once the clutch comes up, then to compensate, I clog the throttle and it launches forward.

It tends to pull away smoother just letting the clutch up without throttle (so it creeps on the self increased idle), once it starts pulling away, then apply the throttle.

My TA doesn't seem to suffer.

I'm wondering if you guys might be in need of a software update?

I agree the revs increase ever so slightly on their own when you dip the clutch, but I've certainly never had any issues with the car jumping forward when pulling away. It's always been very smooth (we have a 1.2 Easy by the way).

See this thread on the 500 section; it's the same engine of course so I wonder if it might be the same problem? The OP there apparently went to their dealer and a "software update" was the fix
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/339820-new-500s-throttle-responce-2.html

The car doesn't actually jump forward, I would say that the throttle feels as if it is on a weak piece of elastic and, when pulling away from stand still, the movement of the throttle lags behind what the engine is doing by about half a second, also, if the car is on the flat, you don't want the engine revving away just to move forward a cars length or less, and when you do want to move forward the throttle doesn't respond! I find it very off-putting in stop/start traffic. As long as you don't use the clutch everything works satisfactorily, as our old model did.

I've had the car for three days now. A great improvement over the 09 version I had is the ride and handling, this is a very marked difference. They have finally got the indicators to work properly, they don't self cancel prematurely now. The parcel shelf has gone back to the old idea of raising as you open the boot and closing as it is closed, the light in the boot is also a welcome returnee. I have had a closer look at the problem with the throttle, the system is now 'fly by wire' rather than a traditional cable and throttle body, which is why there is now a time lapse in pick-up. In slow moving traffic, where you can be traveling along in second, and you then need to slow and drop down to first, as you let your foot off the clutch after engaging first, expecting the car to slow down under engine braking, it actually goes forward faster than what you were doing in second so you have to de-clutch to avoid hitting the car in front. I have seen others driving in fits and jerks and thought it was their poor technique, but they could have been trying to cope with a similar system. Why change something for the worse? I expect things to improve for ease of driving on new models, not go backwards.

I've had the car for three days now. A great improvement over the 09 version I had is the ride and handling, this is a very marked difference. They have finally got the indicators to work properly, they don't self cancel prematurely now. The parcel shelf has gone back to the old idea of raising as you open the boot and closing as it is closed, the light in the boot is also a welcome returnee. I have had a closer look at the problem with the throttle, the system is now 'fly by wire' rather than a traditional cable and throttle body, which is why there is now a time lapse in pick-up. In slow moving traffic, where you can be traveling along in second, and you then need to slow and drop down to first, as you let your foot off the clutch after engaging first, expecting the car to slow down under engine braking, it actually goes forward faster than what you were doing in second so you have to de-clutch to avoid hitting the car in front. I seen others driving in fits and jerks and thought it was their poor technique, but they could have been trying to cope with a similar system. Why change something for the worse? I expect things to improve for ease of driving on new models, not go backwards.

I drove my parents new Panda at the weekend and although it has a nicer ride and they seem to have added in some features that are missing from my 09 Panda (boot light, auto lifting parcel shelf), there are a few things I don't like about it.

• I'm not at all comfortable with the new style handbrake which I find rather far back which caused me to keep clashing elbows with the passenger.
• I think the front dash is rather high up. On the 09 Panda the dash drops in height past the dials which makes it seem like you have greater visibility.
• The thing I really don't like is when you go to pull away at speed e.g. to get onto a roundabout. It doesn't seem to matter how hard you put your foot down on the accelerator it won't pull away any quicker. It will only pull away in its own sweet time.

Yes, the hand brake seems too far back, even to me with my long legs. I have mild arthritis and having to use my fingers rather than wrapping part of my hand round the old type of hand brake causes some discomfort, if only it was a couple of inches foreword or more it would be better. We have now done a few hundred miles in the car. On the open road its nice, but in city traffic, the faster stop start type of driving is a real pig, the faster you try to pull away the longer the response lag in engine pickup is. By the time you have started to really pick up speed there's an embarrassing gap in front. This problem does make filtering in to fast moving traffic dangerous, and would certainly will upset other drivers. I heard my wife try to pull away the other day, I don't think the clutch is going to like that, as it almost stalled and then she rode the clutch as engine went 'whiz' and the car went a few yards with the clutch slipping, oh dear! I will take it in to the dealer and see what they say, but I need the old throttle control back.

Hi David,

Yeah, something definitely isn't right with your car; I still think it sounds like a software update is required, but let us know how you get on.

Hopefully the dealer will be able to replicate the issues you have out on a test drive.

I have taken the car in to the dealers today. The chief mechanic agreed to take the car for a test drive and said, as he pulled out of the car park, 'Is this what you mean?' It was, and he said that other customers had complained about the same thing and that it was due to the management system being set up to meet current emission control requirements. They will report it to Fiat again, but whether Fiat will address the matter is doubtful. To put it right would require a change to the management system program.

So our new car, to meet the emission control requirements, goes slower, uses more petrol, produces more heat, and is supposed to be more eco-friendly at the same time!

I was asked what car I had before, when I said it was an old style Panda he just said that the new one wouldn't go as well as the old one.

Does anyone know a way of get a serious response out of Fiat, not just a brush off?

Thanks for letting us know David.

I don't really know what to say about the chief mechanic's response there. We owned a 500 1.2 Pop (59 plate) before our 1.2 Easy, and I have never in a million years thought that our Panda was inferior in terms of performance. In fact, I think the engine has been tweaked a little bit to improve performance (particularly when going uphill in 5th gear)

I also had the chance to drive an previous gen Panda the other day (it was a 12 plate 1.2 MyLife model), and it felt fairly similar. I'd possibly agree the throttle doesn't quite feel as "loose" in the new model, but it's hardly enough to cause all the problems you described.

All I can say is that you get in touch with Fiat CS (maybe by email to start with and then follow up by phone) and tell them exactly what you were told and what are they going to do about it?

I don't think what you have described above is normal though, but you may need to fight to get the response you are looking for.

I have sent a letter to Fiat CS as you suggest, I will give them a week to respond and then chase them up. A friend of mine has a two year old Panda and says that has a slight problem, but he doesn't drive much in town or city traffic so hasn't found it a real difficulty. This is the fourth Fiat with a Fire engine that I have had, all the previous ones have been very torquey at low speed. My 09 Panda was the quickest of the lot and had a sound more like that of a twin overhead cam. Locally we have a long twisty hill and I used to get great pleasure in being able to pull away from some 'go faster' cars while driving up it.

The old Panda is still in the family, I wish they could make my new one match the old one's performance.

David Bliss said:

My 09 Panda was the quickest of the lot and had a sound more like that of a twin overhead cam.

Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

Mine's a '60 plate Euro4 1.2 - the last of the 60HP cars. IMO it's the best engine of the lot and I'd take one in preference to the 69HP Euro5's every time (I've got one of those in the 500).

The latest designs are not always the best.

With the New Panda the Lord thy FIAT he giveth (better ride, handling, indicators that work properly) and yet he also taketh away (worse economy, performance, and a cambelt that'll trash your engine if it snaps).

But I do think FIAT have nailed the look of the new Panda .

The Mrs's Lounge suffers this flat spot on pulling away and we've each found our own way around it.
I creep on the high idle with no throttle input until the clutch it up, then accelerate.
The Mrs seems to do full bore racing starts, seems her trick keeping the rpms redlining makes her happy!

I agree that you have to get your foot off the clutch before you apply the accelerator. Thank goodness my wife only once did a Gran Prix launch. The test driver did not say ours was any worse than other peoples, but as we still have two earlier Fiats in the family (02 Seicento and 09 Panda) and I can step from one to the other and compare them. On Saturday I drove my daughter's Seicento and it is a pleasure to drive in traffic, like a racing car compared to the new Panda. Yesterday, I had two occasions when the new car failed to perform. First, when I pulled out from a minor road onto a major one the driver of the car behind thought there was enough room to follow me out but, of course, once I had pulled out my car just wouldn't pick up and his car narrowly missed me. The second was when I turned off the main road onto a short, steepish hill where, normally, I would be changing up into third by the time I reached the top I found that all the Panda could manage was second at 30 mph and was absolutely flat, the old Panda would have easily reached 40+ and I could have been going up into fourth. I don't believe that our old Fiats were exceptionally speedy, nor can I believe that our new Panda's performance can be regarded as normal.

I have not yet had a response from Fiat UK Customer Services; I will give them a bit more time in view of the Bank Holidays. The car has now done just over 800 miles; there has been a slight improvement on pick-up, most noticeable when the engine is cold. When the engine warms the problem is still apparent, although it is variable. The idle speed seems lower now and it is now very easy to stall the engine even when you give it plenty of throttle. Occasionally there are two stages of power surge, it is all in the 1000 to 2500 revs band. I have been in touch with a firm that have a rolling road and can test the torque on a low engine speed, if need be I will take it there to get some definite data.

Going back to when I bought the 09 Panda there was a blog about a new 500 (I believe). The owner was going to use the car for driver tuition but found that it had a terrible flat spot when pulling away from junctions, making it unsuitable for learner drivers. They did not get any satisfactory, quick response from Fiat, I don’t know what the eventual outcome was.

I got a call today from Fiat Customer Services. I had a sensible conversation about the problem that I, and others, have experienced with the latest Panda. He told me that the engine has been altered to meet low emission standards and that they are aware of this problem and are trying to develop a solution. In the mean time they will contact my dealer to make sure that my complaint has been properly logged, and I should hear from Fiat when they have come to some conclusion. I will post something on the Forum when I do hear from them again.

Anyone who is experiencing this problem with a new Panda should get in touch with their dealer to make sure it has been properly logged with Fiat. Please add a post here as well, I'm sure that Fiat do look at the Forum to see what people are saying about them!

David Bliss said:

I got a call today from Fiat Customer Services. I had a sensible conversation about the problem that I, and others, have experienced with the latest Panda. He told me that the engine has been altered to meet low emission standards and that they are aware of this problem and are trying to develop a solution. In the mean time they will contact my dealer to make sure that my complaint has been properly logged, and I should hear from Fiat when they have come to some conclusion. I will post something on the Forum when I do hear from them again.

Anyone who is experiencing this problem with a new Panda should get in touch with their dealer to make sure it has been properly logged with Fiat. Please add a post here as well, I'm sure that Fiat do look at the Forum to see what people are saying about them!

Click to expand...

My Panda's a Twinair, so not directly applicable to your case, but I have
noted a lack of 'snappiness' in the accelerator response- in particular,
the revs drop very slowly after the engine's revved with no load.

This doesn't affect the driving characteristics, so I can't complain,
but on a couple of occasions there's been hesitancy when pulling away-
which I've put down to the 'drive-by-wire' accelerator system, and my
reluctance to use a heavy right foot! (to save fuel )


Chris

I am afraid that it is bad news . I had another phone call from Fiat customer services, short and sweet, telling me to book the car into the dealer. I took it in yesterday morning and they did a diagnostic check with no errors found in any system. They did do a software update. They also did a road test but said it was normal, when the first time I took it back the chief technician acknowledged the problem and admitted that he had seen it before! On the way home I couldn't see that the update had done anything noticeable. I have also found that, unless you are a very competent driver, doing a hill start would be very difficult, in that you have to apply some revs and get the clutch to start to bite, as the engine dies you have to depress the clutch slightly again, put the throttle fully down, wait a couple of seconds and, as soon as the engine power comes up, let the clutch up. If you are lucky the car will then pull away. It is like having an engine running on three cylinders only. I want the engine out of my old Panda back! It was much easier to drive.

I am cheesed off and very disappointed. How long have these crappy engines been been used on the Panda?