Hi gang!
Right, been a long time.
Started putting the seats back in and generally went ok. Airbag light came on though[emoji34]
Bought some extra adaptor cables for my Multiscan ecu to read the other modules. Said it was the drivers seat squib.
Anyway must have been damp - all i did was leave it for a couple of weeks and it was fine - no more light. Yay!
Started to do a bit of clay bar/ polish / wax. Pleased with the contrast but really she's too dented to ever look great.
Finished putting the front wing & bumper in then found the windscreen washers didn't work. Oh well off the bumper goes again! Bought a replacement washer pump and found that the second pump had been blocked off with a calpol syringe! Perhaps I'll pit a second pump in there one day - it's only for the headlights.
Finally I managed to immobilise the Jaguar by shearing a bolt on the suspension. Threw the Multi in for an emergency MOT to give me a back up and it only bleeding passed: no advisories! Insurance being swapped over on the weekend. Far more excited than I should be!

Thought i'd try to add some pictures:
From the top - snow man massacre, replacement carpet in (middle seat did come out also), had a go at some clay bar action - this is the brown stuff from the boot lid - must be burning oil!, bonnet after a polish, now water repelent!

This is the comedy washer pump blank and the all important MOT pass!

So to summarise new plan of attack (note this is now my daily driver):
1. Thermostat (runs at 1 bar all the time & heater is cold) – have purchased a second hand one from DAM Fiats
2. Wheels & tyres – 16” Fiat coupe alloys need 2 x new tyres and longer wheel bolts. I already have the 25mm spacers for the rear.
3. Runs like a bag of ***t. This could be due to cold running but I think there’s something else wrong also. In the morning it’s really sluggish – barely enough torque to pull away. I think it might be the turbo VNT actuator or EGR sticking open but strangely it’s not very smokey. Guy at DAM Fiats said the EGR cooler has to come off to fit the thermostat so I’ll look at the general condition of it then and may be consider blanking it off if I can get away without an EML.
4. Clutch – no getting away from it, with a decent set of tyres and the correct amount of power the clutch would be slipping all the time. I have the part but the garage is full of my Sister’s stuff. I can’t bring myself to do it on the driveway in this weather. I think it’ll have to soldier on until I can’t take it any more.
5. Accessory belt / Tensioner – squeals in any wet weather
6. Drivers wheel arch liner – long gone and must do some job at keeping the accessory belt dry.
In an ideal world I’ll spend the whole Xmas break working on it in a nice warm garage, but as that isn’t going to happen we’ll have to see how it goes. I’ve also still got to fix my x-type and the Missus’ car needs an MOT by the 9th of Jan.

When my thermostat failed open I stuck one from a Renault Espace into the top rad hose and mine now heats up correctly and sits on 4 bars.

Think my thermostat has stuck open too as it never gets above two bars but the heater warms up quickly still - how many bars should there be?
Mine hesitates a bit around 3000rpm and doesn't feel to run at 100% but goes better when its cold, I did free of the sticking egr valve but think it needs checking ag again before I start blaming the maf sensor, maybe its the not getting fully warm that's affecting it, what should the mpg be as it (1.9 jtd) is averaging around 36 on 5 mile each way commute.

Does anyone know what makes the auxiliary belt tensioner noisy? Have changed mine and a lot better but still not right, I think the one way clutch on the alternator doesn't free wheel but would that make that much difference? Whole engine judders/shudders at low revs pulling away... its had an new LUK clutch and DMF, crank damper looks ok, is there any other checks?

shedenvy said:

So to summarise new plan of attack (note this is now my daily driver):
1. Thermostat (runs at 1 bar all the time & heater is cold) – have purchased a second hand one from DAM Fiats
2. Wheels & tyres – 16” Fiat coupe alloys need 2 x new tyres and longer wheel bolts. I already have the 25mm spacers for the rear.
3. Runs like a bag of ***t. This could be due to cold running but I think there’s something else wrong also. In the morning it’s really sluggish – barely enough torque to pull away. I think it might be the turbo VNT actuator or EGR sticking open but strangely it’s not very smokey. Guy at DAM Fiats said the EGR cooler has to come off to fit the thermostat so I’ll look at the general condition of it then and may be consider blanking it off if I can get away without an EML.
4. Clutch – no getting away from it, with a decent set of tyres and the correct amount of power the clutch would be slipping all the time. I have the part but the garage is full of my Sister’s stuff. I can’t bring myself to do it on the driveway in this weather. I think it’ll have to soldier on until I can’t take it any more.
5. Accessory belt / Tensioner – squeals in any wet weather
6. Drivers wheel arch liner – long gone and must do some job at keeping the accessory belt dry.
In an ideal world I’ll spend the whole Xmas break working on it in a nice warm garage, but as that isn’t going to happen we’ll have to see how it goes. I’ve also still got to fix my x-type and the Missus’ car needs an MOT by the 9th of Jan.

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(6.) could well be the cause of (5.). You'll be getting all sorts of road crap plastered over the belt with the inner arch missing.

(2.) Won't 25mm spacers on those wheels make them rub the wing arch?

(4.) The clutch has always been marginal on the Multipla JTD. Some companies (CG Motorsports is one) make uprated pressure plates, which can help. The LUK kit gets mixed reviews on here. It's worth doing an Advanced search of the 'pla forum for Valeo and LUK, though the latter is tricky because I think the search engine ignores terms of 3 letters or less. If that happens, search the forum using google...


As for the bad running thing, have you tried running with the MAF temporarily unplugged?

Longprest said:

Think my thermostat has stuck open too as it never gets above two bars but the heater warms up quickly still - how many bars should there be?
Mine hesitates a bit around 3000rpm and doesn't feel to run at 100% but goes better when its cold, I did free of the sticking egr valve but think it needs checking ag again before I start blaming the maf sensor, maybe its the not getting fully warm that's affecting it, what should the mpg be as it (1.9 jtd) is averaging around 36 on 5 mile each way commute.

Does anyone know what makes the auxiliary belt tensioner noisy? Have changed mine and a lot better but still not right, I think the one way clutch on the alternator doesn't free wheel but would that make that much difference? Whole engine judders/shudders at low revs pulling away... its had an new LUK clutch and DMF, crank damper looks ok, is there any other checks?

Click to expand...

Four bars is the normal reading for the engine once it's warmed up; sometimes 3 in very cold weather. It can help to clip lengths of foam pipe insulation (the sort that Wickes or B&Q sell for 15mm copper pipe) onto the bars of the lower grille in the bumper to baffle the air path. The JTD runs cool, especially in cold weather, so this helps ensure that it does warm up.

36mpg for a short 5 mile journey sounds about right to me. Not many diesels of that generation are good for that type of journey as their cooling circuits don't encourage a quick warm up (even if the thermostat is working correctly).

Have you tried running the engine with the aux belt temporarily removed? It's quick to do and will tell you if the ancillaries and belt drive are the source of the problem. How old is the crank pulley? Is it a good-make one? Also, do a visual check sighting from the front of the car to make sure the axle for the idler pulley doesn't point downhill to the left. The metal plate that the axle is fixed to can wilt over time. That in turn tends to force the aux belt off-line, making it squeal. Same applies to the tensioner, to a lesser extent.

Hi WMF – thanks for taking the time to help!

Yes agree with all your statements.
DAM fiats didn’t have any drivers side wheel arch liners that weren’t cracked but mine is non existent! I’ll go back and ask for the most complete cracked one they have and try to cable tie stich it back together or maybe employ some fibre glass to strengthen it.
Regarding the 25mm spacers, I trial fitted the coupe wheels on my facelift multi with rear drums and they rubbed on the inside. My current roundnose Multi has discs on the rear. I haven’t had a chance to offer them up but I guessed they’d do the same without spacers. 25mm was a little over the top but as they’re hubcentric the slimmest spacers are about 16mm. TBH these 25mm jobbies were cheap – if they give too much poke for the MOT then I’ll just swap back to 15”s for the MOT. I don’t think they’ll rub on the outer arch due to the massive gap above the wheel. I would love to lower it one day but springs are silly money. I rarely carry anything too heavy and at the moment the three kids are barely as heavy as I am all together. Watch this space(r)!
The clutch is just plain worn. When vincenze picked me up I noticed he had the habbit of keeping his foot on the clutch pedal ALL THE TIME. My Mum does this also. I’ll fit a new one in good time. FYI I picked up a MINTEX one – they’re reputable for brakes but not sure for clutches – anyway I’m the Guiney pig! Let’s see what £33 get’s you.
Cold running:
Right finally some data!
Two images below are 5 channels I recorded this morning. 0-180S shows the MAF sensor reading pretty much bugger all (Navy trace), the set point is way high (green dashed) so perhaps it’s requesting 0% EGR just after start to aid combustion stability. As mine is reading low, perhaps the EGR is stuck open. It’s also pretty reluctant to make boost (red compared to purple dashed). EGR stuck open would give this symptom too.
After 180S the MAF trace is much better. It’s not perfect but I haven’t got anything to compare it with. I think it would get closer to the peak air flow (1200mg/str) if I kept it at full pedal for longer (remember my clutch slips). Note also the boost is meeting the set point much better (it does overboost but again because I have to lift off because of clutch slip I haven’t given it a chance to control).
So why is it better after 180S? I don’t know yet. Maybe it’s 3 mins after engine start? I doubt it. Note the engine speed goes over 2300rpm for the first time at 183s. I think that maybe EGR shuts off above 2300rpm or possibly a certain torque set point and this had properly shut the EGR valve and opened the VNT. After this point either has stopped sticking and it’s responding better.

Unfortunately my laptop battery is also getting tired and will only last 5 minutes unplugged so this is all I could capture. Any suggestions or comments welcome though!
Checked the error codes obviously and got one about the pedal and accelerator being pressed simultaneously. No idea! Cleared it and didn’t come back. Also managed to check engine temp after 360s and it was up to 60 deg C so I feel less bad about driving it now.

Picked up the thermostat from DAM fiats and it’s had a soak in some descaler to get rid of some of the crud. Just got to fit the bloody thing now.

Thanks all!

Wheel arch liner: Is this any good?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blic-Eng...h=item2ccf625d13:g:ybQAAOSwsZJaYDfU:rk:7:pf:0

That one's for a roundnose. Worth also checking that the seller will actaully ship larger items to the UK. I've been let down on that front before (but not this actual seller.).

Or this one, but again check with Autodoc that they'll deliver an item of this size to the UK. I've had orders cancelled by them before, because of that (they won't ship the engine undertray, for example):

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/prasco/7456440

That's a bit of a bargain though! UK delivery is about £8 I think.

widemouthfrog said:

Wheel arch liner: Is this any good?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blic-Eng...h=item2ccf625d13:g:ybQAAOSwsZJaYDfU:rk:7:pf:0

That one's for a roundnose. Worth also checking that the seller will actaully ship larger items to the UK. I've been let down on that front before (but not this actual seller.).

Or this one, but again check with Autodoc that they'll deliver an item of this size to the UK. I've had orders cancelled by them before, because of that (they won't ship the engine undertray, for example):

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/prasco/7456440

That's a bit of a bargain though! UK delivery is about £8 I think.

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Awesome thank you! £18 delivered! Hope it fits.

So, looking like I need to be replacing my thermostat then, I changed one on my Alfa 156 jtd and the worst bit was getting the egr cooler off - not checked the fitting on the Multipla yet.
I'm not sure how old the crank damper is but I assume its original to the engine, we swapped engines and found the damper on the original had been welded solid... didn't shudder or judder though.
Not sure if i'm expecting too much of it performance wise as i'm kind of comparing it to a Stilo jtd I had years ago and that as they say could "pick its feet up" !!

Longprest said:

So, looking like I need to be replacing my thermostat then, I changed one on my Alfa 156 jtd and the worst bit was getting the egr cooler off - not checked the fitting on the Multipla yet.
I'm not sure how old the crank damper is but I assume its original to the engine, we swapped engines and found the damper on the original had been welded solid... didn't shudder or judder though.
Not sure if i'm expecting too much of it performance wise as i'm kind of comparing it to a Stilo jtd I had years ago and that as they say could "pick its feet up" !!

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I think I'm in the same boat. I've been a bit spoilt by the x-type. It's a 2.0d but supposed to have been remapped. My second Multi went to copart in August and I honestly think I've forgotten how the power feels compared to the Jag. The jtd engine likes to rev all the way up to 4k where I think it sounds pretty good, but below that there isn't really a big torque band like other diesels.
Would really like to have a go at remapping this one with Galletto 1260 up to the limit of the new clutch.
Yes I believe the egr cooler does need to come off for the thermostat replacement - can hardly contain my excitement.
Anyway, in other news, Fiat 1: Jag 0.

Mine goes ok upto 3000rpm then sort of hesitates a bit but then revs further, the Stilo with the same engine pulled like a train but little point going past 3000 ish as it didn't really go any faster just made more noise! My other car is a Saab 9-3 Tid.... 16 valve version of same engine and that can shift, thinking some sensor problem with Multipla or egr not 100%.

Been ont t'internet and theres lots about people putting an inline thermostat in top hose just after connection to original thermostat housing (same on Rover 75 cdti too) You can get one from Renault 5, Espace and many others, sounds like the way to go to me ??

You should have asked Edd China...he seems to have loads of satin black !

Major Jag suspension repair then?

Sort of. The rear front lower control arms are worn to buggery and cause big negative camber and toe out. Burned through 6mm of tread on the inside of the rear tyres in 4 weeks. Went to replace them in my lunch hour and a bolt sheared off inside nut welded to the knuckle. I ended up having to take the whole knuckle and trailing arm off (pictured in back of bug) to take home so i could grind off the welds of the nut then bash out the remains of the bolt. Has been a hell of a saga to be honest. Spend an hr kneeling in a puddle this morning trying to put it back togther. Another half hr and I'll have it back on it's wheels for the first time in 3 weeks. Just got the other side to do then!

For those who are still interested here's a side by side, old and new of the offending Jag arm. Kwality motor innit!

Quick bit of upcycling on the Multi, take one used but ok front wiper and one shagged rear one. Cut down and make good rear one. When I replaced the washer pump I must have put the wires the wrong way round. If you push the stalk forward you get front washers, rear wiper. Pull it back and you get rear washers but no front wipers (i don't think the front wipers come on automatically). Anyway I'll swap it back when I do the arch liner.

Perhaps it's just the pipes are connected to the wrong outlets from the pump?