General Rear subframe bushes - beware

[przybyla7]

So, after an advisory on the rear bushes last year I decided to bite the bullet. There are several quite old threads about using alternatives as Fiat do not sell the actual bushes, just the entire subframe.

After picking through the advice, I went for the Tipo bushes, which were described as needing a little bench grinding to get to fit.

This I do not accept! I spent 4 hours with a 250Watt bench grinder and new wheels on EACH bush. Basically all the metal had to be removed, not the 1 mm described elsewhere.

I might be that I had a different brand (they were the First Line ones) and was unlucky, but the amount of work required was ridiculous. I was getting close to asking around the village if anyone had a lathe. Eventually I cut off the metal using bolt cutters - this part is inside the metalwork of the frame so invisible. I can see why it is there though as the subframe on the Tipo etc just has a large hole for the bush to sit in rather than the shaped crater on the multipla.

Things I have learned:

(1) The rubber part of the Tipo bush is exactly the same dimensions as the rubber part of the original multipla bush. Presumably they make the rubber part, then bond it into a metal ring for the other Fiats. On the multipla the cup is part of the subframe.

(2) It crossed my mind (later) that an elegant solution would be to cut the metal cup off the subframe, just leaving a hole (as in the Tipo etc) into which the Tipo bush would drop.

(3) I am even wondering if a Tipo subframe would fit? There is a lot of chat about Alfa and Brava subframes being interchangeable. Eper isn't behaving tonight, so I have a look and see.

You can see what I am describing here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-D...hash=item3af496f6b1:m:m6DysfWKaiaUTA8-M4AF5eQ

 

[widemouthfrog]

Interesting to see PU bushes are now available for the Multipla. However, looking at the pictures I think they'll give a much harsher ride than the OEM bushes, because a) the PU will need to be pretty rigid to resist lateral loadings as it hasn't got a steel pot to press against and b) they're not shaped like the OEM bushes, which have relief cut-outs in the rubber to reduce the transmission of road vibration in certain directions.

It sounds to me as though the Tipo bushes you bought are not the ones for the Multipla. The bushes I bought (I'm trying to remember where I bought them and what make they were) didn't take much persuasion to get them to fit the subframe. I took a different approach to most in that I opened out the holes in the subframe rather than turn down the pots of the bushes, if only because if/when I next need to replace the bushes, I shouldn't need to file off anything.

Just for reference, attached is a photo of a new Fiat Multipla subframe, as posted by a long-departed member of the forum that picked it up off ebay for £50 (what a screaming bargain that was). The tell-tale stamps on the top plates of the bushes and the text moulded into the rubber say 'A280' and also show something that looks like a Lancia shield. These are the marks I would go looking for when shopping for replacements. I remember that the ones I bought were all but identical to what's in the photo and I only had to file the holes out by approx. 0.5mm. From an old thread I posted about my subframe rebuild, the holes in the subframe are dia. 64.5mm (front) and 74.5mm (rear).

As an aside, at the time I replaced the bushes in mine I drew up a design for a two-piece PU bush that used a low Shore-hardness outer ring to reduce transmitted road noise and vibration in the vertical plane but a harder core to run through the holes in the subframe to give precise location in the lateral plane to sharpen handling. The way they went together also meant that it would be possible to fit them without removing the subframe from the car. I had lengthy discussions with a small UK manufacturer but couldn't get them made in time for my needs so went with 'standard' ones.

The forum ePER seems to have been busted for quite a while. There are a couple of other ones online (there's a Polish one that's very good) but they all suffer as a result of too many users at one time. Try using it really early morning or late at night. Failing that, you can buy a knock-off copy of your own from ebay for only a few quid.

 

[widemouthfrog]

Did you come across this thread in your search? Lots of useful info on part numbers and sizes:
https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/304879-multipla-rear-subframe-kit-ebay-2.html
A quick search on ebay using the First Line part numbers brings up lots of hits. The ones Marty links to from Manodalys is now a dead link as Rytiss (the owner) has a smart new website. He's a member of this hallowed forum though, so you could PM him if he doesn't respond to the mention here.

 

[Rytiss]

I've actually sold the eshop, but I'm in good terms with the new owners, so feel free to PM me and we can arrange something.

Also, try this as an Eper replacement: https://www.fiatdalys.lt/en

 

[martyc5674]

So, after an advisory on the rear bushes last year I decided to bite the bullet. There are several quite old threads about using alternatives as Fiat do not sell the actual bushes, just the entire subframe.



After picking through the advice, I went for the Tipo bushes, which were described as needing a little bench grinding to get to fit.



This I do not accept! I spent 4 hours with a 250Watt bench grinder and new wheels on EACH bush. Basically all the metal had to be removed, not the 1 mm described elsewhere.



I might be that I had a different brand (they were the First Line ones) and was unlucky, but the amount of work required was ridiculous. I was getting close to asking around the village if anyone had a lathe. Eventually I cut off the metal using bolt cutters - this part is inside the metalwork of the frame so invisible. I can see why it is there though as the subframe on the Tipo etc just has a large hole for the bush to sit in rather than the shaped crater on the multipla.



Things I have learned:



(1) The rubber part of the Tipo bush is exactly the same dimensions as the rubber part of the original multipla bush. Presumably they make the rubber part, then bond it into a metal ring for the other Fiats. On the multipla the cup is part of the subframe.



(2) It crossed my mind (later) that an elegant solution would be to cut the metal cup off the subframe, just leaving a hole (as in the Tipo etc) into which the Tipo bush would drop.



(3) I am even wondering if a Tipo subframe would fit? There is a lot of chat about Alfa and Brava subframes being interchangeable. Eper isn't behaving tonight, so I have a look and see.



You can see what I am describing here.



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-D...hash=item3af496f6b1:m:m6DysfWKaiaUTA8-M4AF5eQ

Are you sure you didn't leave some of the original bush inside the subframe???
You say the "cup is part of the subframe "... do you mean the outermost metal part of the bush?
Did you drop the subframe to replace?... they can be hard to get out... I had to burn mine out!!