Register Login
FIAT Auto Specialist Team
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-08-2017   #1
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

TomorrowI have to drive my family to Brittany for our annual holiday. If I can't get the old front bushes off the rear subframe and fit new ones by 5pm for MOT retest I wil have to use a Micra! Please help.

I have read all the threads available and they all say the old bushes will just drop out. Mine are not dropping. Has anyone a quick method? Dothey come out from above or below the frame?

Please save me from the micra.

Tim
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

MulTim is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #2
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 28,737
Thanks: 1125
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

@Oletimer

@BikeDoc

You need a quick reply from a regular who has done this job.

Got a better description of exactly which parts are the issue?
@MulTim

@widemouthfrog
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by varesecrazy; 04-08-2017 at 12:37.
varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #3
semper in merda
 
widemouthfrog's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deepest darkest Wiltshire
Posts: 2,140
Thanks: 172
Trader Rating: 0
widemouthfrog has donated!
widemouthfrog is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

@varesecrazy @MulTim - That woke me from my slumber!

If it wasn't for Photobucket royally f**king things up, this thread would have done the job nicely:
https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/3...ml#post3069379

But now that they've done their evil deed, it's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Give me a few minutes & I'll see if I can find the missing photos.....
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

widemouthfrog is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #4
semper in merda
 
widemouthfrog's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deepest darkest Wiltshire
Posts: 2,140
Thanks: 172
Trader Rating: 0
widemouthfrog has donated!
widemouthfrog is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

To reprise the thread I linked to above, and add photos direct to the forum servers:

"Anyway, here's a photo or two. Not much done this weekend because of other commitments, but hope to finish stripping the subframe tomorrow evening and take it for coating on Tuesday. Despite the front subframe bushes being completely shot, I ended up having to burn them out because they simply wouldn't budge. The rear ones were simpler - a few belts with a club hammer and they popped out."

"First up, as removed from car. Bump stops, top mount for dampers all pretty sound. All four subframe mounts are shot (fronts more so than rears). Rear mountings have already been removed in this piccy."

Note the small pile of bits of bush at top/centre of the first photo. They don't just 'drop out'. If they did, you would have a seriously dangerous car, as all that holds the subframe to the Multipla is the friction fit of the bushes in the holes of the subframe. For this reason, DON'T OVERDO IT WHEN YOU FILE DOWN THE NEW BUSHES OR OPEN OUT THE HOLES IN THE SUBFRAME. I opened out the holes in the subframe, then did what's shown in the next post.....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5885.JPG
Views:	59
Size:	715.0 KB
ID:	182987   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5890.JPG
Views:	43
Size:	501.1 KB
ID:	182988  

__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by widemouthfrog; 04-08-2017 at 13:40.
widemouthfrog is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #5
semper in merda
 
widemouthfrog's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deepest darkest Wiltshire
Posts: 2,140
Thanks: 172
Trader Rating: 0
widemouthfrog has donated!
widemouthfrog is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

Reprise, continued:
"BTW, for anyone that's interested, these are the correct measurements for the rear subframe bush holes:

Front - dia.64.5, rim depth 13.5mm, fixing bolt M12 fine (1.25 pitch) x 90 long approx.

Rear - dia. 74.5, rim depth 12.5mm, fixing bolt M12 fine (1.25 pitch) x 100 long approx.

Next up, stripped subframe, ready to go for paint stripping and shot blast. The bump stops are a pain to get off (think I got lucky there judging by the number of people complaining about theirs coming adrift in other threads) but all fittings can be removed without destroying them if you take care. The pressed steel cones that the bump stops fit to are a thinner gauge steel than the rest of the suframe - check them for rust holes. Generally, lots of surface rust but nothing too serious. Shot blasting will reveal all however."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5891.JPG
Views:	31
Size:	421.6 KB
ID:	182989   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5892.JPG
Views:	26
Size:	410.1 KB
ID:	182990  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5893.JPG
Views:	29
Size:	495.5 KB
ID:	182991  
Likes varesecrazy liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

widemouthfrog is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #6
semper in merda
 
widemouthfrog's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deepest darkest Wiltshire
Posts: 2,140
Thanks: 172
Trader Rating: 0
widemouthfrog has donated!
widemouthfrog is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

And a bit more:
"Anyway, on to the pictures. I fitted the subframe bushes this afternoon. In the end, I cooked up a collection of bits and pieces to make a simple press:

(Photo)

"I bought three bits of tube from a local steel stockholder to fit around the mouting faces of the bushes and press on the outer body flange. They charged me 12 (bloody rip-off) for bits that they'd normally chuck in the bin. The jobsworth manning the tube saw couldn't have cut them more on the p1ss if he had tried. Needless to say, they won't be getting a Christmas card from me this year . I then slit the tubes along their length to ease them around the bush flanges (above and below the subframe) and drilled a couple of old bits of angle iron to act as the cross bearers. A long M12 bolt goes through the whole lot (including the bush) and the nut tightened to press the bushes into place, like this:"

(More photos. Because the forum image management tools are crap, I'll leave you to work out which picture goes where)

"I can post the sizes for bits bits of tube if anyone's interested.

It worked a treat. I didn't have to file the holes for the larger (rear) bushes out much beyond just removing the powder coat. The bushes are an almost perfect press fit. As you can see, the force applied bent the angle iron a little, but wasn't anywhere near enough to stretch the M12 bolt. The holes for the front bushes had to be filed out a little more. I went for an interference fit of 0.15-0.25mm and that was just about right. I used a smear of PTFE lube on the bushes to help them into place."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5908.JPG
Views:	34
Size:	447.4 KB
ID:	182992   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5906.JPG
Views:	28
Size:	284.8 KB
ID:	182993  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5910.JPG
Views:	35
Size:	302.2 KB
ID:	182994  
Thanks varesecrazy thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by widemouthfrog; 04-08-2017 at 13:32.
widemouthfrog is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #7
semper in merda
 
widemouthfrog's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deepest darkest Wiltshire
Posts: 2,140
Thanks: 172
Trader Rating: 0
widemouthfrog has donated!
widemouthfrog is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

Once it was all put back together, it looked like this:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5917.JPG
Views:	37
Size:	414.0 KB
ID:	182995   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5920.JPG
Views:	57
Size:	691.0 KB
ID:	182996  

__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

widemouthfrog is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #8
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 28,737
Thanks: 1125
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

No email option for @MulTim

Lets hope he sees this..

And gets it sorted.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #9
semper in merda
 
widemouthfrog's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deepest darkest Wiltshire
Posts: 2,140
Thanks: 172
Trader Rating: 0
widemouthfrog has donated!
widemouthfrog is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

He'll be doing bloody well if he gets the above done, all put back together and down to the MOT station for 5pm......
Likes varesecrazy liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

widemouthfrog is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2017   #10
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 28,737
Thanks: 1125
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

Somebody may point out he couldve done this 3 WEEKS ago...MOTs can be done 4 weeks before expiry of old certificate.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2017   #11
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

Thanks for all the helpful replies. MOT came as a shock. I only went in on Wednesday to get wheel alignment done + a new tyre for holiday and it turned out the MOT expired last month. I thought it was September but that was my old car...

Anyway, the old bushes eventually came out the top of the frame after I had sworn at them for a long time, pressed them with a jack, sworn some more and repeatedly hit them with a hammer and cold chisel. I got a friend to skim the new ones and after a bit more sweating, swearing and some pulling I got them seated. There were no tears or screams so all in all it went quite well.

I did the drop links and a track rod end yesterday & the rear automatic adjuster on the o/s brake this afternoon and passed the MOT with half an hour to spare.


The list of advisories is quite long but these can wait. Happy days.

Thanks again.

Tim
Likes widemouthfrog, varesecrazy liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

MulTim is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2017   #12
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Bucks
Posts: 1,233
Thanks: 61
Trader Rating: 0
BikeDoc has donated!
United Kingdom 
Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

The Subframe can't drop away from the Chassis even if the Bushes are completely shot, as long as the big Washers are in place on the Bolts.
They are a slightly larger diameter than the bores in the Subframe, so they are a failsafe feature.

Due to the Geometry of the Trailing Arms and Suspension layout, the loading on the Front Bushes is Downwards, and Upwards on the rear.
__________________
Why? Why not?
BikeDoc is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2017   #13
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,324
Thanks: 316
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

Quote Originally Posted by MulTim View Post
Thanks for all the helpful replies. MOT came as a shock. I only went in on Wednesday to get wheel alignment done + a new tyre for holiday and it turned out the MOT expired last month. I thought it was September but that was my old car...

Anyway, the old bushes eventually came out the top of the frame after I had sworn at them for a long time, pressed them with a jack, sworn some more and repeatedly hit them with a hammer and cold chisel. I got a friend to skim the new ones and after a bit more sweating, swearing and some pulling I got them seated. There were no tears or screams so all in all it went quite well.

I did the drop links and a track rod end yesterday & the rear automatic adjuster on the o/s brake this afternoon and passed the MOT with half an hour to spare.


The list of advisories is quite long but these can wait. Happy days.

Thanks again.

Tim
Wow, well done awesome work.
was very worried for you, thank you for update.
Likes Mad one liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jackwhoo is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 06-08-2017   #14
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Buxton Derbyshire
Posts: 543
Thanks: 26
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Help! How do rear subframe bushes come out on Multipla?

Quote Originally Posted by widemouthfrog View Post
And a bit more:
"Anyway, on to the pictures. I fitted the subframe bushes this afternoon. In the end, I cooked up a collection of bits and pieces to make a simple press:

(Photo)

"I bought three bits of tube from a local steel stockholder to fit around the mouting faces of the bushes and press on the outer body flange. They charged me 12 (bloody rip-off) for bits that they'd normally chuck in the bin. The jobsworth manning the tube saw couldn't have cut them more on the p1ss if he had tried. Needless to say, they won't be getting a Christmas card from me this year . I then slit the tubes along their length to ease them around the bush flanges (above and below the subframe) and drilled a couple of old bits of angle iron to act as the cross bearers. A long M12 bolt goes through the whole lot (including the bush) and the nut tightened to press the bushes into place, like this:"

(More photos. Because the forum image management tools are crap, I'll leave you to work out which picture goes where)

"I can post the sizes for bits bits of tube if anyone's interested.

It worked a treat. I didn't have to file the holes for the larger (rear) bushes out much beyond just removing the powder coat. The bushes are an almost perfect press fit. As you can see, the force applied bent the angle iron a little, but wasn't anywhere near enough to stretch the M12 bolt. The holes for the front bushes had to be filed out a little more. I went for an interference fit of 0.15-0.25mm and that was just about right. I used a smear of PTFE lube on the bushes to help them into place."
Looks just like the subframe on my tipo and like you I made a jig up to press the bushes in but all that happened was the bolt snapped tightening up and I ended up getting the local garage to do the job on a hydraulic press .
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Michael Dranfield is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) Rear subframe bushes IanLF Multipla 13 23-04-2016 09:46
(G) rear subframe bushes scoobie Multipla 15 05-04-2013 23:03
(T) Rear subframe bushes Ralf S. Coupe 5 20-11-2011 17:43
(T) rear subframe bushes matt8772 Multipla 17 08-08-2011 12:57