Technical Broken Fuel Filter & Parts Problems 55 Plate JTD

[nathonjones]

Hi.
I have a 55 plate Fiat Multipla JTD 1.9 Diesel.

I've been having a problem with, I think, the injectors which are getting clogged and are causing a loss of power to the accelerator, particulary when starting the vehicle from cold.

A friend offered to help fix it, advising me to put injector cleaner directly in the fuel filter as adding it to the fuel was a waste of time. Perhaps this was/is bad advice - that's irrelevant now anyway.

In the process of unscrewing the top of the black plastic housing, which hold my filter, he broke off the top hose which has a little black plastic washer/nozzle connector to the fuel filter housing and runs about 15"-20" down to the fuel pipe (see attached image).

I've been, for 14 days now, trying to order a replacement for this part and received parts:
51761974 - £28.14 (inc vat)
51761973 - £22.56 (inc vat)

...from Border Cars Ltd (Dumfries) both of which were incorrect.

They're now suggesting that I actually need part 51762084 at a cost of around £90.00 (plus vat!) but I'm struggling to believe that because it's only a 15"-20" hose with a washer/nozzle connector at one end.

I've been trying to find a picture of part 51762084 to confirm that it's the part I need, and to check the price obviously, but can find nothing online.

Firstly, has anyone had any trouble with the fuel filter or fuel filter housing and had to replace this part? If so, can you recall what you paid?

Secondly, I've contacted Fiat and a Fiat dealer and neither seemed to be able to tell me which part I need despite me e-mailing them, both, photographs of my engine with arrows clearly pointing to what I need (see attached image). Is this "just the usual" level of service I should expect from Fiat?

I'd appreciate any advice that could be offered. Thanks.

Regards
Nath.

 

[Davren]

Hi, Welcome to the FF.

This is the parts diagram for a 55 plate Multi. It doesn't show any plastic pipes that fit into metal pipes.

If you want to PM me your VIN, I may be able to check it further for you.

 

[nathonjones]

Hi Davren,

That's the picture the dealer sent me (by courier because they don't have any e-mail facility but could, however, receive e-mails!).

As you can see in that diagram, it looks nothing like the filter that's in my Multipla! Here's my fuel filter from another angle (attached).

In the diagram you've provided it looks more like a canister, but you can clearly see from my photo that mine's held in this black pastic housing with a screw top.

Where do I find the VIN?

Much appreciated.
Nath.

 

[Davren]

Found the diagram for your filter but it doesn't show the pipes for it. This filter is for the M87 engine (115hp for Belgium) and M88 engine (120hp except Belgium).

From my previous diagram at #2, there is only 1 pipe listed that goes to the top of the filter for the M88 engine i.e. part number 51757336. I think that is the pipe you need. Fiat price at 01/05/2010 is £20.20 +VAT.

The 2 wrong pipes you have (51761973 and 51761974) are for the M7 engine that has a different filter to yours.

The other part number you mention (51762084) is a complete set of fixed pipes for a RHD vehicle with the M7 engine, from the fuel tank to the engine compartment, as in this second diagram. Fiat price £87.96 +VAT.

 

[nathonjones]

Davren, Thank you very much.

How would I tell the dealer about the diagram you've presented here? In other words, the diagram that IS my fuel filter? I'd like to be able to direct them to that diagram so that I can explain about needing part 51757336.

It has taken the dealer, and Fiat, so long to sort this out that I only wish I'd come here in the first place (although I tried and there was a technial error with this site that didn't allow me to register).

The whole experience, however, has left me completely disillusioned with Fiat. 14 days and still no-one, from either Fiat or the Fiat dealership, have been able to identify the part. It has been a complete joke. :bang:

Thanks again. I appreciate the effort you've put in. You should work for Fiat!

Regards
Nath.

 

[Davren]

Very strange...... according to the VIN you PM'd me, your vehicle has the M7 engine and the 2 pipes (51761973 and 51761974) should, therefore, be correct, but those 2 pipes are not correct for the type of filter you posted the picture of.

Only thing I can suggest is, that you suggest the dealer gets pipe 51757336 to try.

Is there any possibility that the engine and filter has been changed during the vihicle's history?

The diagrams are from ePER (the Fiat parts catalogue). If you want your dealer to see them, you could direct them to the thread at:

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/237640-broken-fuel-filter-parts-problems-55-plate-jtd.html

Or you could click on the diagrams to enlarge them and copy them.

Can you post close up pictures of both ends of the broken black plastic pipe in your first picture.

 

[nathonjones]

Hi Davren,

I'd be pretty alarmed if the engine and/or fuel filter have been changed. I've owned the car from new (2005), and have never had any major works carried out apart from the replacement of a rear wishbone. It only has about 36,000 miles on the clock. Has my vehicle been tampered with?

The two parts I've already received, 51761974 and 51761973, attach to the side of the fuel filter. If you look at your diagram, you'll see the two connectors for those parts on the bottom right side.

At the top of that diagram though, almost hidden from view, is the connector for the hose I need.

Considering the car is only 5 years old, why does there appear to be so much confusion over this part? Is this what I should expect from Fiat? Tomorrow will mark 14 days since my first enquiry to the dealer, and Fiat, and I still have a dead Multipla on my drive.

I'll ask the dealer to send part number 51757336 but they are already audibly sighing when they speak to me on the phone, and have already dispatched part 51762084 so this is only going to wind them up further.

I feel totally let down by Fiat.

I've attached a close up of the part that I need. Please note that this was in a thick black rubber sheath, but that was been removed by the fella that tried to help me fix it. Does this look like part 51757336?

Thanks again.
Nath.

 

[Davren]

It's very unlikely that the engine has been changed, I'm just 'clutching at straws' now. The confusion arises because the type of filter on your car is only listed for the M87 & M88 engines whereas it seems your engine should be the M7.

The right hand end of the black pipe in your picture doesn't look as though it has a removeable fitting on it. This would suggest that it's only supplied complete, and already fitted to, the long metal pipe that goes under the car to the tank. If that's the case, then that would be part of part number 51762084.

Sorry, I don't know what part 51757336 looks like, I only have the ePER diagrams to go by and ePER diagrams are seldom very accurate.

I wouldn't worry about winding up the dealer, if you've given them all the correct information, their parts department should be able to get the correct part for you. It's not your fault that there (maybe) a problem with the Fiat ePER.

Looks like this is going to be an expensive mistake for your 'friend'?

 

[Peat]

Just a thought without thinking it through a great deal but would it not be cheaper and easier in the long run to get filter and pipes from a scrapped car that has the good old 'banjo' fittings?

Peat

 

[nathonjones]

Hi Peat.

If I thought, for one second, that Fiat or the Fiat dealership would know which filter and pipes I need then I'd do that.

At the moment, however, I'm close to 14 days trying to track down the part number for just one hose/pipe. Neither Fiat, or the Fiat dealership, know what part I need despite me sending them photographs of my engine and photographs of the pipe itself.

If Fiat, the Fiat dealership and I don't know the name of the parts then how will I be able to order them second hand from anywhere?

What is a 'banjo' fitting? Is that the wee plastic thing at the end of the hose, as pictured in the close up below?

Appreciate your input. Thank you.
Nath.

 

[umberto]

Hi Peat.

If I thought, for one second, that Fiat or the Fiat dealership would know which filter and pipes I need then I'd do that.

At the moment, however, I'm close to 14 days trying to track down the part number for just one hose/pipe. Neither Fiat, or the Fiat dealership, know what part I need despite me sending them photographs of my engine and photographs of the pipe itself.

If Fiat, the Fiat dealership and I don't know the name of the parts then how will I be able to order them second hand from anywhere?

What is a 'banjo' fitting? Is that the wee plastic thing at the end of the hose, as pictured in the close up below?

Appreciate your input. Thank you.
Nath.

Don't fret, i have an 05 model. I'll have a look at mine to see if i can make sense of it all. BTW, why were you messing with the fuel system in the first place?

 

[Peat]

Hi Nathon,
The banjo fitting is , refering to the schematic in post #2 above, items 2, 3 and the filter end of 7 - it is banjo shaped & usually metallic (brass or alloy) so unlikely to break as easily as plastic - which of course is cheaper and why it is used.

Peat

 

[nathonjones]

It's very unlikely that the engine has been changed, I'm just 'clutching at straws' now. The confusion arises because the type of filter on your car is only listed for the M87 & M88 engines whereas it seems your engine should be the M7.

The right hand end of the black pipe in your picture doesn't look as though it has a removeable fitting on it. This would suggest that it's only supplied complete, and already fitted to, the long metal pipe that goes under the car to the tank. If that's the case, then that would be part of part number 51762084.

Sorry, I don't know what part 51757336 looks like, I only have the ePER diagrams to go by and ePER diagrams are seldom very accurate.

I wouldn't worry about winding up the dealer, if you've given them all the correct information, their parts department should be able to get the correct part for you. It's not your fault that there (maybe) a problem with the Fiat ePER.

Looks like this is going to be an expensive mistake for your 'friend'?

The dealer is going to send through the £90.00 part so that I can see if it's correct. I should have that tomorrow so I will, no doubt, be back in touch with an update.

The dealer doesn't believe that the other part you recommended, part number 51757336, is correct.

Appreciate all the advice offered. Thanks.
Nath.

 

[nathonjones]

Hi Nathon,
The banjo fitting is , refering to the schematic in post #2 above, items 2, 3 and the filter end of 7 - it is banjo shaped & usually metallic (brass or alloy) so unlikely to break as easily as plastic - which of course is cheaper and why it is used.

Peat

But, Peat, the schematic in post 2 isn't my fuel filter! This is what I've been trying to explain to Fiat and the Fiat dealer, neither of whom seem to have the foggiest which filter I should have! It's an absolute nightmare.

I wouldn't describe the fitting as banjo shaped at all. Are you referring to the fitting in my close up photograph in post 7 above?

 

[Peat]

I appreciate that the filter in post #2 is not fitted to your car.

What I was suggesting is that you get the whole lot from a scrap yard, if possible, and replace your present system with the older one.

Peat

 

[nathonjones]

Part number 51762084 turned up today, from the dealer, and it's definitely the correct part. It's a bitter-sweet revelation though, because it's £87.96 +VAT!

My question now is, how easy would it be to find this part second hand? Any advice on where to look?

Also, is this part something I could fit myself? I'm no mechanic, and it's also fuel related, so I don't want to bite off more than I can chew and end up in even more of a mess.

Appreciate all the advice so far.
Nath.

 

[nathonjones]

Don't fret, i have an 05 model. I'll have a look at mine to see if i can make sense of it all. BTW, why were you messing with the fuel system in the first place?

I've been having problems with blocked/clogged injectors.

A friend turned up, unannounced, and said they could help. Anyway, he twisted the top off the fuel filter and, in the process, broke the top connector.

Note to anyone else attempting this...disconnect the hoses before you unscrew the top of the fuel filter! :idea:

 

[Davren]

Part number 51762084 turned up today, from the dealer, and it's definitely the correct part. It's a bitter-sweet revelation though, because it's £87.96 +VAT!

My question now is, how easy would it be to find this part second hand? Any advice on where to look?

Also, is this part something I could fit myself? I'm no mechanic, and it's also fuel related, so I don't want to bite off more than I can chew and end up in even more of a mess.

Appreciate all the advice so far.
Nath.

Part number 51762084 should be a complete set of fixed pipes that go from the fuel tank to the engine compartment and fuel filter, as in the second diagram at #4 above. It looks as though the fuel tank may need to be removed or lowered to fit them. Most of the work will be under the car so you would need axle stands or a ramp to do the job.

 

[nathonjones]

So it'll have to go into a garage then. What a doze.
Could be close to a £150 mistake this!

Thanks again Davren.
Nath.

 

[nathonjones]

Here's a photo of part 51762084. As you can see, my friend only broke the very top section yet Fiat insist that I need the entire part.