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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #1
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New joiner - but already investigating a couple of faults....

Hello everyone - I am new to the forum and getting around the different sections. My wife has a 2012 Fiat 500 Lounge with the Twin Air engine which has been in use by us for the last 18 months. It is a great fun little car and she loves the fact parking is now a breeze compared to the aging VW Passat estate I normally drive.

I normally work on old Holdens, VWs and even a few Volvos/Peugeot/Renaults but never really worked on Fiats before so getting used to the Italian way of design.

I have a couple of questions hopefully the more wise 500 owners are already all over.
1. Fiat 500 Twin Air - I've been looking but can't find a maintenance manual (Haynes or similar) for a 500 Twin Air model. Haynes do the 1.2/1.4L model but not a twin air, any ideas???
2. Passenger side footwell water - This week the passenger footwell has had water in it to the point the carpet was saturated. I've lifted the carpet/foam and can't see a drain hose loose. Doesn't seem to be coming down the firewall as the foam is dry most of the way up the wall. Any ideas???

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Ocorfe
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #2
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Quote Originally Posted by ocorfe View Post
Hello everyone - I am new to the forum and getting around the different sections. My wife has a 2012 Fiat 500 Lounge with the Twin Air engine which has been in use by us for the last 18 months. It is a great fun little car and she loves the fact parking is now a breeze compared to the aging VW Passat estate I normally drive.

I normally work on old Holdens, VWs and even a few Volvos/Peugeot/Renaults but never really worked on Fiats before so getting used to the Italian way of design.

I have a couple of questions hopefully the more wise 500 owners are already all over.
1. Fiat 500 Twin Air - I've been looking but can't find a maintenance manual (Haynes or similar) for a 500 Twin Air model. Haynes do the 1.2/1.4L model but not a twin air, any ideas???
2. Passenger side footwell water - This week the passenger footwell has had water in it to the point the carpet was saturated. I've lifted the carpet/foam and can't see a drain hose loose. Doesn't seem to be coming down the firewall as the foam is dry most of the way up the wall. Any ideas???

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Ocorfe
There's no publicly available workshop manual for the twinair engine
Fiat like all manufacturers these days are moving away from them to online subscription services that only available to registered garages



As for the water check the scuttle panel area at the bottom on the windscreen the drain here can often block up with dead leaves and other organic Muck so that the rain water goes down the air intake for the cabin ventilation rather then draining away
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3
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Re: New joiner - but already investigating a couple of faults....

Hello and welcome to the forum.

As has been said, there is no cheaply and/or readily available workshop manual for the TA engine.

The key to maintaining these engines seems to be regular oil and filter changes; using the correct specification of oil is particularly important.

For more information, look at this thread, starting at post #29 , and read the linked document in post #30 . With your background, I think you'll find it interesting.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:18.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #4
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Re: New joiner - but already investigating a couple of faults....

Quote Originally Posted by ocorfe View Post
Hello everyone


2. Passenger side footwell water - This week the passenger footwell has had water in it to the point the carpet was saturated. I've lifted the carpet/foam and can't see a drain hose loose. Doesn't seem to be coming down the firewall as the foam is dry most of the way up the wall. Any ideas???

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Ocorfe
Hi,

There are several areas that need to be looked at for water ingress.

The first is the scuttle drain as Chris says and the inserts two of them inside the engine bay at the back. These can be seen in the pictures and the idea is they stop fumes being drawn into the car but allow water to run out of the scuttle. We live in the country surrounded by silver birch trees and the little seeds will block up in just a day so this time of year we have to completely remove them and avoid sitting behind a car in front if emitting fumes. On some of our classic cars the old type simple air intakes we have been able to put mosquito netting under the vent but the complex scuttles today it is not so easy. To start off I suggest you pull them out and clean them out. they are a bit awkward to get at but can be done.
Whilst they are out look down by the wiper arm base and you will see a small hole for water to drain through. make sure these are cleared and kept cleared.
Then get a plastic tie strap and poke it down the channel at the side of the front windscreen down deep into the underside of the inner wing as this is also a water drain area.
Then just check the rubber door seal moulding at the front of the inner door skin at waist rail level. This deflects the water from running down into the footwell from the doorshut gaps.
The front scuttle panel cover is a bit of a bad design IMHO as it has a dip on the LHS on a RHD car that acts as a basin and seems to hold water when car is on level ground. OK not a problem letting water into the car but going to leave a chunk of ice in the cold winter days.

When everything has been cleaned/cleared run a hose over the front and see if draining at the rear of the engine bulkhead where the scuttle drain inserts have been removed and then if all good refit them.

Worse case but quite rare on bonded screens is an area that has not adhered and really the only way to check this is to tape up around the screen sides and top and see if the leaks go. There are some sophisticated ways using smoke emitters but these are really a professional item.

Some of our cars with sunroofs have been known to leak due to perished drain rubbers that run down the pillars from the inner pan. I am not sure if the Fiat has these as the roof is an outer sliding design so the lid like on the glass poptops acts as a water shed from the top naturally so no inner pan structure for the roof to slide back into. Someone with bodyshop experience might shed some knowledge on this as we are yet to have to discover any issues with the sliding sunroof.

Of course you could also have a leak in the heater matrix so make sure you are not losing any water from the header tank


Hope this helps a little

Farrah
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Last edited by Farrah; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:43.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #5
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Re: New joiner - but already investigating a couple of faults....

Thanks Chris3234/jrkitching/Farrah for the responses. I kind of guessed there was no twin air manual but hoped someone may have a copied factory manual or similar.

On the leak, spent today pulling out the carpet/sound deadening foam and checked door drains (clear), underneath the windscreen by the front struts (passenger side had some plastic rubbish in it - now cleared) and the drains in there look clear but will try poking some plastic rods down to make sure.

Car is smelling less damp as it has had a dehumidifer running all day but want finish checking everything before I hand it back to 'she who must be obeyed'. Working of the 500 is a bit more challenging, I could climb into the engine bay with the V8 in place in my 1974 Holden. I think I might need to invest in triple jointed hands...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #6
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Re: New joiner - but already investigating a couple of faults....

Quote Originally Posted by ocorfe View Post
I think I might need to invest in triple jointed hands...
Two occasions where you'll find these useful are when replacing the pollen filter (on RHD cars; it's easy on LHD ones) and when changing the DRL bulbs.

You can download a copy of eLearn, Fiat's official workshop documentation, for free from the downloads section of this forum. It doesn't cover the TA engine, but you'll surely find it useful for all the rest of the car.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 2 Weeks Ago at 18:57.
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