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Old 10-12-2019   #16
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

Quote Originally Posted by testacorsa View Post
I like to keep two sets of wheels for my cars, so I'm on the lookout for some FIAT 14" steels.
@rmjbn1 Understandable that you want to go for a set of 14 inch wheels, especially if could potentially cause insurance trouble if you go bigger. And you are right about 13” tires getting rarer. You are also right about higher profiles being better on rough roads, but just to let you know; my 175/55r15 are very forgiving over potholes, so I think that 175/60/14 (i Think that's 14” official panda size) will ride very well too.
It may have changed in subsequent years and for later models, but my 2004 1.1 Active rides on 165/65 R14 79T rubber, on 5Jx14 alloy rims, as listed in the (original, 2nd edition!) owner handbook. The book also offers the base option of 135/80 R13 79T on 5.00Bx13 steel rims, but nothing larger.
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Old 11-12-2019   #17
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

13"will not fit over the frontcallipers of a 100HP.
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Old 11-12-2019   #18
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

Quote Originally Posted by Sheddi View Post
It may have changed in subsequent years and for later models, but my 2004 1.1 Active rides on 165/65 R14 79T rubber, on 5Jx14 alloy rims, as listed in the (original, 2nd edition!) owner handbook. The book also offers the base option of 135/80 R13 79T on 5.00Bx13 steel rims, but nothing larger.
The later 1.1/1.2 Euro4 EcoPandas left the factory with 155/80 R13 energy saving tyres; these are optimised for ride/handling/economy and work very well on the 1.1/1.2 models. However, as has been said, this isn't relevant for 100HP owners, since 13" wheels won't clear the (larger) brake calipers.

For 1.1/1.2 owners, 155/80 R13's are readily available in the UK.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 11-12-2019 at 10:51.
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Old 12-12-2019   #19
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

I really like my cars to have a bare minimum of kit. My Panda 100HP has climate control, and I really wish it didn’t.

I couldn’t agree more! I’m not convinced by this idea that adding more electric toys to a car makes it more 'luxurious' and 'sophisticated'.

I also like the idea of a 100HP without climate control. I remember DaveMcT was having issues with his recently, and the manual controls with air-con on the standard Panda seem fine to me.

The buttons for the climate control on the 100HP look like they need your full attention, a bit like on my dad’s car (Mazda) where the high-spec controls are so complicated he’s given up using it! The basic Panda's are so easy to use you don’t even need to look at them.

But then I grew up with 2CV’s, so ended up believing cars are light, simple, noisy and draughty (but fun!) things where anything electrical should be treated with deepest suspicion. Despite having ‘nothing to go wrong’, ours still managed to break down a lot thanks to dodgy French electrics (almost as bad as British). I still have nightmares about polishing contacts and replacing coils in the dark and the rain. Now my mum has a C3 Pluriel (it’s awful) where the roof and boot are electrically operated – yay! – with inevitable results.

I’m still baffled that you managed to sleep two people in a Panda. I guess you must really like each other.

Hee hee, er yes, I wouldn’t advise it if you’re just two friends. You might end up being more than that by the morning whether you want to or not! A double airbed is exactly the same size as the inside of a Panda, and it was comfortable, but two occupants do tend to meet somewhere in the middle.

Overall, like you I prefer a tent, but popping the boot open and looking out over the sea whilst lying in bed was rather fine. Caterpillaring out to make coffee over a gas stove in the wind was a bit less glamorous, so we won’t mention that.

I’m still a bit unsure about the 100HP bodykit to be honest, but I like the silliness of it; the fake grills and rear diffuser.

Yeah, you’re right, the fake diffuser is a bit silly. Not as bad as some though. I remember the first time I saw one of these.

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Plastic fake air intakes to… what exactly? I had to go and sit down.

It’s a weird car to make a sporty version of in the first place, and only fiat could make a car that brags about having 100 horsepower.

Haha! Maybe they were ahead of the curve in making a 5-door ‘hot’ (warm?) hatch? I like to think they’ve stuck to the original concept of the hot hatch by keeping it light and not adding too much power, but just making sure it handles and stops well. I like the fact that fuel, tyres and insurance aren’t expensive on the 100HP, whereas most hot hatches seem to be in real performance car territory for these.
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Old 13-12-2019   #20
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

My heater is working correctly at the moment. The most annoying feature is how it refuses to blow air on the screen until the engine has warmed up a bit. Every day I have to suffer severe misting or fart about with the push buttons to rev up the heater fan. Total crap IMO.

When the heaters system does go titsup (they have weak control cogs on the air flaps) it will be replaced with a standard Panda aircon heater. I may well repair the 100HP heater and sell it on to cover costs.

MY wife's Dynamic needs a new heater speed control resistor. I have not yet psyched myself up to strip out the steering column to access the repair.
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Old 14-12-2019   #21
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

@Sheddi
135/80r13! Never heard about that That´s the same tire as a Fiat 127!

@A3jeroen
Good to know. I have a set of 13" winter tires I was hoping to use temporarily.

@jrkitching Thank's for backing A3jeorens claim about the 13". No need to think about those anymore then.

@rmjbn1
I couldn’t agree more! I’m not convinced by this idea that adding more electric toys to a car makes it more 'luxurious' and 'sophisticated'.

You hit the nail on the head there. It's the reason why electric cars like a Testa will not save the planet either. Planned obsolescence is really going next level these days.

Overall, like you I prefer a tent, but popping the boot open and looking out over the sea whilst lying in bed was rather fine. Caterpillaring out to make coffee over a gas stove in the wind was a bit less glamorous, so we won’t mention that.

Lol! I know what you mean with the view in the morning - THAT is luxury to me!
I won't be mentioning that I managed a full bodywash/bath inside my Panda either, when I was camping

Yeah, you’re right, the fake diffuser is a bit silly. Not as bad as some though. I remember the first time I saw one of these.

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Plastic fake air intakes to… what exactly? I had to go and sit down.


Hahaha, you´re funny guy I was luckily already sitting down when I saw a picture of the new Audi S6 exhaust
What exactly indeed!

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What makes me tolerate the Panda bodykit (and like a bit too), is that it was made a bit tongue in cheek. It makes me smile when I look at it - can't wait to see what happens when I get to drive it every day too, without the thought of a snapped timing belt in the back of my head!

I like to think they’ve stuck to the original concept of the hot hatch by keeping it light and not adding too much power, but just making sure it handles and stops well.

True! It's why I am attracted to it as well. It's a very commom misundertsanding that you need loads of power to have fun. There's a threshold for the amount of power versus funfactor. Too much power will spoil it, and take the "sport" out of driving. The 100HP is classic hot hatch in spirit. You have to use the gearbox a lot to get speed out of it, because the engine only perform at a high and relatively narrow rpm range. Love it!

@DaveMcT My heater is working correctly at the moment. The most annoying feature is how it refuses to blow air on the screen until the engine has warmed up a bit. Every day I have to suffer severe misting or fart about with the push buttons to rev up the heater fan. Total crap IMO
Hmm, is that on auto? My aircon doesn't work, so I keep that off, and then the heater just works like a normal manual heater, and it remembers the last settings too.
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Last edited by testacorsa; 14-12-2019 at 11:33.
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Old 14-12-2019   #22
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

Update time.

Last weekend I had gotten most of the parts, and all of them were right, but some had been substituted by other brands. My Meat&Doria airfilter, Valeo oil filter, and Valeo rear brake pads had been substituted by "Stark" branded ones. Still debating whether to return those parts. What do you think?
I bought almost all my parts on Autodoc btw. A huge german parts company, that sells all over the world on a lot of websites. Super cheap, and well packaged, but took 10 days to arrive, and the substitution is the reason that I probably won't be dealing with them again.

After getting my mx5 off the jackstands, and rolled to another building, I cleaned my garage to get a fresh start for the Panda. I also set some mouse trapps, as there had been a party going on since I was there last
Since then, I have had a at least two traps to empty each time i went to the garage.

I started off with something easy and enjoyable, so the Fogs were first. The bolts were rusty, but other that it was a straight forward job. I had to use two washers behind the fog bracket to eliminate a small gap between the hole in the bumper and the fogs. I chose "TYC" branded ones, and they turned out to be decent. They have glass lenses even! Tried out some yellow vinyl too.

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Then I changes the wipers to some nice Bosch ones, and the rear one got the wiper rubber itself replaced.

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The sparkplugs got renewed. I chose the NGK v-line ones, but I'm still unsure what they offer besides the normal ones. They were ripe for a change to say the least. The same could be said about the airfilter

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Next came the thermostat. I got a Meat&Doria one. Looks good but sadly it lacks the little bleed metal thingy to let out air bubbles. Had I known I would have chosen differently. Draining the coolant wasn't too bad. I took a chance on the quick connect at the bottom of the radiator, and I managed to wiggle it off without breaking it. All new jubelee clips too - in stainless ofcourse

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The expansion bottle got a clean too. It wasn't too bad, but it had some sediments at the bottom, and some discoloration. I cleaned it out with a brush, and some hot water, strong soap, and citric acid. After that I tried bleaching it with chlorine, but I didn't have much much success. I have had success with it before though. I will buy some other stuff later, and let you know if that had any effect.

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Update to follow soon. I did get a lot further last weekend, but now I better get out to work on it again. It's already one o'clock here, and I'm still in my pyjamas - Gotta love weekends!

P.S. Thanks for teaching me how to insert pictures the proper way rmjbn1. That worked a treat!
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Last edited by testacorsa; 14-12-2019 at 12:20.
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Old 14-12-2019   #23
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

Good to see the old girl getting some proper TLC - she deserves it. Congratulations on making it out of your pyjamas and into the garage on a Saturday in December - I'm impressed! Hope you're warm enough in your garage. I like the yellow lenses on the fogs - gives it a bit of an endurance sportscar vibe.

Now, as for this:
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Gosh. The mind wibbles. Then folds in on itself, and finally collapses. I don't even understand what's going on there. Are those fake cup holders on the back of that thing? Now I'm confused. Never mind a sit down, I think I'll lie down in a dark room till February.

A bath in a Panda?! I don't think my poor brain can take any more. Or is that like a cat bath? Where you lick yourself all over? If so, yeah, that's fine, that's what I do when camping too. Another reason why you should either camp alone or with a loved one - never a friend...

Yeah, I'm not convinced by electric cars either, personally I think hydrogen sounds a better future solution. OK, if you live somewhere where local air quality's an issue and you really need a new car, then electric's worth considering at the moment, but otherwise I think the best we can do for poor ol' mother earth is keep our old cars running well for as long as possible. Which is why it's great to see your 100HP getting a new lease of life.

Thanks for the great update, looking forward to the next installment!
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Last edited by rmjbn1; 14-12-2019 at 18:33.
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Old 14-12-2019   #24
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

Quote Originally Posted by rmjbn1 View Post
Yeah, I'm not convinced by electric cars either, personally I think hydrogen sounds a better future solution.
The structural problem with most renewable electricity - wind, solar, tidal, wave etc. - is that the generation happens when nature decrees it, not when humans want it. So you need some way of smoothing out the peaks and troughs.

Currently that's mostly batteries or pumped storage hydroelectric. Batteries are big, heavy and have a very low energy density compared to hydrocarbons, while there's only so many places to build pumped storage and they're mostly in use already.Hydrogen is a step in the right direction but there are better options in development.

Audi have a pilot electricity-to-methane plant running in Germany:
https://www.audi-technology-portal.d.../audi-e-gas_en
https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/...emissions-7353
This takes surplus electricity, uses that to make hydrogen, then combines that with carbon dioxide from a co-located biomass-fuelled power plant to make methane. The methane can be pumped into Germany's natural gas grid or used to fuel CNG-powered cars (with mostly-conventional internal combustion engines).

I guess (and this is largely speculation on my part) the next step would be to do the same sort of thing but make methanol, or another combustible fuel. This will allow the current liquid fuel distribution systems etc. to be used, a bit like the switch from leaded petrol to unleaded was done 20(?) years ago.

The energy efficiency isn't currently great, but if we're going to switch to renewable power there's going to be lots of generating capacity going spare (think of solar in the summer months, when there's much less need for heating). We could still be filling our tanks at filling stations well beyond the zero-carbon cut-off date.

Way off-topic, if you're interested in seeing how the UK power grid is doing I recommend Gridwatch:
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
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Old 16-12-2019   #25
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

The massive problem is cost and thermal efficiency from end to end. Hydrogen is a wasteful fuel which is not outweighed by the small load smoothing effect it might have.

Disadvantages of renewable energy systems rarely are almost never discussed. The biggest being very high cost exacerbated by being idle for 80% of the time.

By far the biggest killer of people the biggest polluter and the biggest CO2 emitter is coal. The only way that will ever be stopped is by making clean, cheap zero CO2 power available on demand. Even better if it could be used to replace the existing coal fired boilers.

I get flamed for making this point but we do have that technology. Google "Moltex Energy" and watch Ian Scott's videos. Yes its nuclear power. Its' not a rehash of old expensive systems and it has very little in common with Alvin Weinburg's MSRE from the 1960s.

It's happening in Canada. The only thing stopping UK moving ahead is the regulatory process full of road blocks with any movements going at a glacial pace.
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Old 23-12-2019   #26
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

@rmjbn1.

Thanks, I am pretty comfy in my garage as long as it's not too cold outside. I really like the yellow fog(s) too, and it will add a bit of color to the rather conservative grey.

Haha, yeah, the s6 exhaust is one of the hard ones to swallow.

Can't even begin to think of a response to the cat bath thing
Thanks for a good laugh though!

Keeping old cars going also makes sense to me, and I'm glad you think that too. It's not "the solution", but definitely less wasteful than buying new, (not that it's an option for me at all though) + it's good fun, and saves the wallet some pain as well
And thanks for the kudos, it helps to keep the motivation going.

@Sheddi and DaveMCT

Thanks for the input. I will check some of the things out that you mention.
No doubt we have a problem on our hands that need solving. To be honest I don't think technology has the answer (and will get there in time). I think we have to live differently, and compromise on things like transport and travel. I also believe that we have to reduce how many people live on this earth. Not an easy topic at all!

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________

So on to my 100HP.

There was no putting it off any longer. The timing belt change was waiting, and I had to get stuck in. I knew this wouldn't be fun job, and I was right. Luckily I had no time pressure, as I still have my other good old Panda 1.2 to get me places.

So after preparing the garage, and doing some easy fun stuff on saturday, I wasn't looking much forward to sunday, but I did get off to a good start.
I had just gotten a gas bottle refilled for the heater, so the garage was toasty warm, and I was served coffee and goodies by the lady I rent the place from

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Taking things apart wasn't too bad either. Only one frozen bolt, so that was better than expected. It's tight in the engine bay, and the engine mount was the worst, as the bolts are to long to take out. but by both elevating and lowering the engine (a lot) with a floor jack, I got it in the end. I didn't take apart the exhaust by the flex pipe, as I'm changing my exhaust soon. If you care about your exhaust, It would be a very good idea to do this. Also remove the rear gearbox dogbone mount as you will twist it above the limits.

I had to remove the auxiliary belt tensioner as well to get to the small bit of rust that was hiding behind it on the chassis leg.

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I forgot to take pictures of the finished product, but I gave it salt neutralizing spray, then neutralized that with water. Blow dried, and followed by a rust converter, and epoxy mastic.
The products I use are from rust busters in the UK, and I have used the stuff on my Mx-5 too. The degraser is awesome. The salt remover you just have to trust, as you have no way of knowing if it works. Same thing with rust converter, although you can see the metal change color to deep purple. The epoxy mastic is easy to work with, but how well it keeps rust away, only time will show. It gets some nice reviews on the webs though, and is 2k unlike POR15. I will follow it up with some cavity dinitrol, when spring comes around.

Back to the bleeping timing belt
I studied and researched the timing belt change a lot, and I recommend you do the same if you want to change yours. The 16v fire engine is special, as you need all 4 pistons to be in line, and not piston one at TDC as is usual practice. You also need to loosen the camshaft pulley! You will come across some rubbish advise suggesting otherwise, and someone thinking they know what they are doing, and did this without tools Ignore them, and get a tool set - it'a a must!

I read that people got quoted as little as 200£ to do this job. That would be incredibly cheap if done correctly, so please make sure the garage you use have the right locking tools, and won't do the job in the traditional way! I will try to save you some time:

I followed this very nice but incomplete guide:
https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/fiat_...lacement.shtml

I also downloaded elearn for a stilo 1.4 16v that has a complete guide to the belt change. It's a smidge confusingly written, but together with the above guide, it will make sense. Sadly I lost the link, but it wasn't hard to find.

The tool kit I got from demon tweeks. It's a draper 32802. It pretty well made, but had its flaws too, but more on the later. It's not exactly cheap at 45£, especially sine draper stopped producing it, and the replacement kit it twice the price! Again, I can't stress enough that you need locking tools for this!

I will not write a complete guide, but here's a few photos of the procedure:
My engine timing before i loosened the old belt. No idea what this is in degrees, but it's several degrees out of timing. This is not necessarily not an indication of a badly done job, but could be the cause of a loose belt as well. Part of the locking tool kit are these threaded pipes that you screw into the spark plug holes on cylinder 1 and two or 3 and 4. You then insert metal rods, and these are supposed to line up to make sure all pistons are in line, and the engine is correctly timed - mine was not.
Also pictured below are the the locking tools installed.

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The belt after I removed it The belt was very loose as well. I was ripe for a change as you can see.

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The water pump was next, and it was time as it had a bit of play in the bearing. My engine had the newer "t-jet" type installed, bit I decided to downgrade to the one with a a smaller impeller as it left the factory. It should be more than adequate, and should save a tiny bit of fuel as well
The Fiat mechanic doing it the last time was a bit of a slob. It was leaky, in spite of using all the silicone sealant in the world Before removing it, I cleaned everything behind the timing covers.

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I took the stud out of the block, to better clean the water pump surface, and I'm glad I did. I really took my time, and make it squeaky clean, and I also used silicone remover to make it completely oil free. I used plastic padding "gasket" for installing the new pump.

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Before installing the new pump, I tested the fit, and I couldn't get it to sit flush. It was pretty hard to find the cause, but at last I found out it was binding at the top, so I trimmed it a bit.
I am a bit disappointed in the SKF timing belt kit I chose, both for this, and the fact that the tensioner bearing wasn't made by SKF. It was the same as the original used by Fiat, which was installed on my car, so I guess it's fine. Their cambelt stickers are also make from paper, so they will dissolve in water...

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After waiting a day for the silicone to dry, I got back to finishing the job.
On with the new belt, and go through some procedure from the guide to ensure a good fit a the correct tension. Sadly the locking tools for the cam wasn't exactly a 100% fit which meant that I could be a few degrees of phase, even when following the procedures to the point. This sucked, but I ended up getting very near to band on in the end

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After assembling it all again, I filled the radiator with G12+ (VW coolant). Lasts 5 years, cheap as chips, and can be mixed with other coolants witout any gelling or worse. I also did an oil/filter change to find the sump plug had no washer I can't imagine this is normal, or am I wrong? I found a copper washer that fit, and filled with Total 9000 5w40 energy.

Time for starting, and proving that the job was a goodun - always a nervous moment for me. It did - pheew

Bleeding the engine went well, but it must have taken 10-15 minutes at least before the thermostat opened. I wish there was another way of doing the bleeding, as the head gasket is in danger. After the finally thermostat opened i filled the expansion tank to max, and waited another 10 minutes with the engine idling, massaging all the hoses.
I was pretty sure I got most of the air, but after driving 25 km home, the expansion tank, was just below minimum again.
I watched the level for a few days, and now it's good - and the head gasked still seems to have only the correct holes

That is it for this lengthy update.
Merry christmas everyone!
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Last edited by testacorsa; 23-12-2019 at 15:16.
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Old 23-12-2019   #27
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

I put the correct amount of coolant concentrate into the engine then top up with distilled water. Than way I'm not over diluting the coolant.

To speed up the bleeding, remove the heater hose vent screw, squeeze and hold the rad bottom hose, put finger over screw hole and release hose. Repeat until the vent hole is full and replace the screw. Run the engine for a while. Stop engine and loosen the screw to check for bubbles.

No matter it's measured, electric cars go two to three times the miles per unit of energy as a petrol car does. The top Teslas get 150mpg equivalent. The new Porsche Taycan gets 100mpg because it's less efficient. The more ordinary EVs like Kia and Hyundai will be between the two. Less efficient than Tesla but less power and less cost (though not much).

Tesla are working on a 500,000 mile battery and power train. I doubt that includes the drive shafts but its at least three times the mileage we usually see on engine driven cars. Their new truck is being slated to offer much better working life than the (all look the same) body on frame trucks made by everyone else. Time will tell, but long life vehicles will hit "Big Auto" pretty hard over the long term as there will be less churn when rusty wrecks are replaced.

The downside is the cost of parts, service and repairs. Tesla don't allow anyone to service their stuff but their own outlets. I can also see problems with seized and corroded brakes from lack of use. Electrics hardly use the brakes.

I think people with the cash are getting a great deal from the Model 3 as depreciation is low and software is constantly updated. Audi are pushing the E-Tron again but its 50% more money for a car just like their others except for the power source.

If you want to convert your Panda, expect to pay from £8000 (plus car) for a base option with rubbish range. Can't wait.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 23-12-2019 at 17:02.
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Old 23-12-2019   #28
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

I premix, so I'm sure to have the concentration at the end. Just like the engine oil, you can never drain all the coolant.

I read somewhere that there was no heater hose vent screw like on the 1.2, so I didn't even check. I will have a look next time I'm in the engine bay.

Range is just part of the whole picture. The energy consumption all way from production of the car (lithium mining especially) to the end of the car's life has to factored in to figure out if they are more environment friendly. Also the making of electricity itself, as a lot is made from fossil fuels, and the conversion costs energy as well.
Furthermore, cars like tesla are so filled with electronics that will not live that long - the motorised door handles are a great example. It is an american car, and not build very well. I have a friend who has a new model 3, and the gap for the rear screen varies 0,9 cm from left to right.

To me Tesla is just like apple. They don't, as you say, allow other companies to work on their things, and would rather scrap than repair, so they can sell another new car. It's not a green company, but they sell a product with a green image though. And the hypocrisy of people thinking they are saving the world by driving a 2,5 tonne luxury vehicle is driving me nuts!

What I would really like to see, is a bare bones electric vehicle on the streets, made by a company with the right attitude. Lightyear is the nearest I have seen yet. Regrettably they start production with a luxury model as well, but a smaller, simpler car should be in development.
Good video about the lightyear One here:
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Last edited by testacorsa; 23-12-2019 at 22:51.
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Old 24-12-2019   #29
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

As much as I agree with your statement regarding Tesa, it is what we all believe in. It is not for no reason that half the world owns an Iphone. Surely they are doing more things right than just the branding. Expecting Tesla to take over the industry in a few years.
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Old 24-12-2019   #30
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Re: I got myself a 100HP - Finally!

Great to see the 100hp's rejuvenation continuing with some good progress being made, and thanks for pointing out two of the Panda's (surprisingly few) rust spots! She'll be as good as new soon
Merry Christmas, all
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