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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
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Dead 100hp panda...

Hi all,

So yesterday while driving home on the highway and then stopping to turn into a side road. No hooning or unnecessary sport mode action. My check engine light came on with a beep and the car slowly died. I tried starting again but When i turn the key it sounds like the engine itself isnít turn but rather just the starter swinging? So the sequence of events was slow down at traffic light to turn into side road then slow and turn into another side road, light beep dead. Slight acceleration between each slowing...

What could it be? I saw no smoke or smelled anything burnt or anything worrying just the beep, engine slowly dying and then nothing. The car has water and it has oil. With nothing spewing out or on the ground. I know it could be major like cambelt or something but also hoping its something small. Some insights on what to look for would helpful...

Tia

Justin
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #2
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

As I suspected its a snapped timing belt guess its rebuild time yay!!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #3
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Timing belt kit with water pump
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...817&sku=253744

Example valves. You may not need a full set. If it has sacrificial rockers you might only need to replace them..
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...1.4_16v_Valves

Head bolts (check if you need them
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...16v_Head_Bolts

Auxiliary belt
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...3165&sku=42794

Example head gasket. Check with Shop 4 Parts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FIAT-PUNTO-GRANDE-PUNTO-1-4-1-2-2005-2010-ELRING-Head-Gasket-NEW/123617075238?hash=item1cc826e026:g:H7QAAOSwJiBcTwl F
Likes JustApanda liked this post
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #4
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Timing belt kit with water pump
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...817&sku=253744

Example valves. You may not need a full set. If it has sacrificial rockers you might only need to replace them..
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...1.4_16v_Valves

Head bolts (check if you need them
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...16v_Head_Bolts

Auxiliary belt
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...3165&sku=42794

Example head gasket. Check with Shop 4 Parts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-FIAT-PUNTO-GRANDE-PUNTO-1-4-1-2-2005-2010-ELRING-Head-Gasket-NEW/123617075238?hash=item1cc826e026:g:H7QAAOSwJiBcTwl F


Thanx Dave! But being in SA ebay items is not always an option. As they get ďlost in the postĒ very easily with our postal service... courier might be an option but that also pushes the price of the item up drastically.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #5
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by JustApanda View Post
Hi all,

My check engine light came on with a beep and the car slowly died. I tried starting again but When i turn the key it sounds like the engine itself isnít turn
does the engine turn over with a spanner on the Crank nut ?

if yes

is the Crank spinning on the starter motor ?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #6
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by koalar View Post
does the engine turn over with a spanner on the Crank nut ?



if yes



is the Crank spinning on the starter motor ?


I have no idea. But when i tried to start with the key it just sounded like the starter was spinning. Didnít seem like anything else. I just towed it to the mechanic after that. Will ask these questions when I go and see for myself tomorrow.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #7
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Engines that refuse to start (e.g. no fuel) will have a continuous noise from the starter motor. Engines with a broken timing belt have a high/low sound as it is easier to turn cylinders with bent valves than it is those with closed valves.

The parts listed give you an idea of costs here in UK so you can judge how they compare in SA. It's not exhaustive of course you wont know everything until it's taken apart.

Consider replacing the whole engine.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #8
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Consider replacing the whole engine.
Seconded.

My experience of having an engine rebuilt following a snapped timing belt is not good. We had this happen on a 1.4 TU engine from a Citroen many years ago; the engine was rebuilt by Citroen trained mechanics but it was not a success, it kept mixing its fluids. In the end we opted for a replacement (used) engine which was a much cheaper job than the original rebuild and worked. Of course, that was in the days before everything was controlled by ECUs so it was easy to do the swap.

Unless you are confident that the engine is designed with a sacrificial link - like rockers (does the 100p 1.4 have them?) - you will never find out the full extent of the damage without a thorough and comprehensive rebuild.

Good luck.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Oh no! Take off the top timing cover, super simple process and just check if the belt is still in tact and the tensioner is on tension. If you need to replace the belt, denso belts offer a 100 000km warranty on it and the kit was like R700. If you did break a velt, aftermarket valves are going to put you back aroundR260 a valve. But you're going to have to pull the head. If so that would be the time to inspect pistons for damage too. But check the belt first, if its in tact, move over to electronics, ie ignition and fueling..

Ps when the motor is swinging did it sound like it was swinging under compression or did it sound like a motor swinging with the plugs out
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
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Quote Originally Posted by JustApanda View Post
As I suspected its a snapped timing belt guess its rebuild time yay!!
missed this post, my bad...if you are going the engine swap way, may e we can both do the 1.4t swap together on both pandas
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #11
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Does anyone know if the 1.4 petrol as sacrificial rockers as the 1.3 diesel does?. If they are fitted, the repairs are low cost when you fit the new timing belt.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #12
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by ChrisPRSA View Post
Oh no! Take off the top timing cover, super simple process and just check if the belt is still in tact and the tensioner is on tension. If you need to replace the belt, denso belts offer a 100 000km warranty on it and the kit was like R700. If you did break a velt, aftermarket valves are going to put you back aroundR260 a valve. But you're going to have to pull the head. If so that would be the time to inspect pistons for damage too. But check the belt first, if its in tact, move over to electronics, ie ignition and fueling..



Ps when the motor is swinging did it sound like it was swinging under compression or did it sound like a motor swinging with the plugs out


Ya it sounded as dave described... its definitely stripped teeth and bent valves. The mech quoted me R13000 to repair the belt with ancillaries which would allow them To test compression and the top end. I asked them
To strip and inspect visually which they didnít want to. They then took a second hand belt and did a compression test to find none. So its either full rebuild or replacement engine. Which Iím trying to find now. Chris do you know of any? If i can find in SA for a fraction of the cost of the rebuild itíll be great...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #13
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Does anyone know if the 1.4 petrol as sacrificial rockers as the 1.3 diesel does?. If they are fitted, the repairs are low cost when you fit the new timing belt.


Ya if i get an engine itíll go through a full major service before being driven... only safe that way
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #14
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by JustApanda View Post
Ya if i get an engine it’ll go through a full major service before being driven... only safe that way
I don't know the answer, but if the 100HP has valve rockers intended to break on overload, the repair costs could be quite low - new rockers, new timing belt. Job done.

You can check for bent rockers by removing the cam/rocker covers and simply looking. BUT if you have bent valves, you'll have to remove the cylinder head and check for cracks in the casting and replace the bent valves, etc, etc. Also remove the sump to check for creased bearing shells on the affected big end bearings. They may well be ok but very sensible to check.

Test for bent valves -

I checked mine in a darkened room -

Remove all valve springs and label valves for each seat. The obviously bent ones are easy to see. The possibly bent valves are not.
drop the valve into the head, shine an LED torch into the associated port and turn the valve using a seat lapping tool. Look at the combustion chamber side. If you can see a moving crescent shape of light as you turn the valve it's probably slightly bent. Recheck with a fine smear of engineer's blue on the valve seat. Blue should be picked up 360 degrees around the valve itself.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 3 Weeks Ago at 17:45.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #15
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Re: Dead 100hp panda...

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
I don't know the answer, but if the 100HP has valve rockers intended to break on overload, the repair costs could be quite low - new rockers, new timing belt. Job done.

You can check for bent rockers by removing the cam/rocker covers and simply looking. BUT if you have bent valves, you'll have to remove the cylinder head and check for cracks in the casting and replace the bent valves, etc, etc. Also remove the sump to check for creased bearing shells on the affected big end bearings. They may well be ok but very sensible to check.

Test for bent valves -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpgemDWRDE

I checked mine in a darkened room -

Remove all valve springs and label valves for each seat. The obviously bent ones are easy to see. The possibly bent valves are not.
drop the valve into the head, shine an LED torch into the associated port and turn the valve using a seat lapping tool. Look at the combustion chamber side. If you can see a moving crescent shape of light as you turn the valve it's probably slightly bent. Recheck with a fine smear of engineer's blue on the valve seat. Blue should be picked up 360 degrees around the valve itself.


Ooh thanx for this... Iíve never built an engine but Iíve always wanted to! Guess now would be the time to learn! Id love to diy but time would be an issue.
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