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Cinquecento FIAT Cinquecento Trofeo Stradale

Introduction

Hi :),

Since this forum has been a great source of knowledge that I used in my build I think it's appropriate to show the result of what it helped me to create.

The car is a 1997 899. I used it for a few years as a daily before I decided to turn it into my own idea of how a street version of the Trofeo rally car could've looked like if it was ever made. I didn't want a car that was too low, looked weird or was dynamically compromised in some way. I wanted it to look like it could've been made by FIAT and it had to be a street car that can deal with less than ideal roads. It's not finished work, this is only a first incarnation of the idea, there will be another chassis with a roll bar, bigger engine, serious seats, harnesses and a collection of small changes plus all the bits that got modified until now.

It started like this.

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I decided to change the whole suspension front and back using as many new parts as possible, upgrade the brakes and replace every part that was old and worn to ensure this car drives like a new one. Up front only the steering knuckle was reused. At the rear there is a used beam and control arms from Italy (18 year old parts and only a smidge of rust :eek:). Short steering rack. Suspension is MTS Technik 60/40. Works well on bumpy roads and is firm enough to give a sporty ride.

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Brakes are my favourite part of the car. The stopping power is exceedingly satisfying and you have to be a butcher to overheat them which I still didn't manage to achieve - light car doesn't require exotic materials to perform well. :cool: I still have to get a custom made handbrake cable but that's no more than 40 quid to make.

Front
- Calliper: Alfa Romeo 155/FIAT Punto 1 GT Turbo [FIAT 9946828, TRW BHW156E] + AUTOFREN SEINSA D025138 + FRENKIT 808001 + AUTOFREN SEINSA D4073
- Disc: Brembo MAX 09.5870.75 257mm
- Pad: Ferodo FDB370

Rear
- Calliper: Abarth 500 [TRW BHQ284E] + custom flanges
- Disc: Magneti Marelli PBD031 240mm
- Pad: TRW GDB1981 (not 100% sure)

Pipework
- Flexhose (steel braided custom made): 2x front 500mm + 2x rear calliper 300mm + 2x rear arm 280mm

System
- Master cylinder: Magneti Marelli 360219130158
- Fluid: Millers Performance Brake Fluid DOT 5.1

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I got the idea for wheel and tyre combo from J333EVO. Fifteen inches, 165/50 tyre. I think the Lancia wheels suit this car exceptionally well. The tyres are good too but they are discontinued now so I will need to think of something else after I wear them out. Would like to try 185/55R15 Yokohama Advan AD08.

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The engine remains the same for the moment. I wanted to see how this car drives before I pour money into engine swaps. Now I have a chassis that can take any engine. The car will be developed further as time goes by.

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I am pleased with the overall result. It is a drivers car now, that was my primary goal. It looks competent and not overly shouty. Like most project cars it needs fine tuning, some bugs still have to be ironed out but it's a promising start. This topic will be updated. :)

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Looks like I'll be doing a re-shell sooner than expected. The most annoying thing, apart form loosing the rest of the season, is that it happened on a slow corner when I was just going home. The rear lost traction suddenly, impossible in dry conditions at such speed. It's clear to me the road was smeared with something or simply damp in that spot.

Won't be repairing, too rusty and expensive to do, I planned to bin this shell anyway. I recently bought a bunch of stuff that will need to wait: front camber plates, rear anti-roll bar kit, a complete 1.4 16v swap. Now I can get a 1.2 16v from Mk1 Punto Sporting. I like the idea of a revvy motor so I guess the 1.4 will go to someone else. Either way, the next Cento will be a ground-up build with everything I had in mind so this thread is far from over.
 
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No worries 'cos I've just bought this. ;)

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Did they use these wheels only in Punto Sporting?

Originally imported from Brescia, very little rust but neglected overall. It's my first contact with this engine and now I can say it's a little gem, urgent, high revving, it will be more than enough for the lighter Cinquecento on a twisty mountain road. The only thing holding it back is the 5-speed box which always tries to keep the engine around 3-4k while it should stay at it's best around 5-6k. I need to find the 13/64 6-speed, it tops out at around 125 mph depending on the tyre, right at the limit of this engine and it's pointless to go faster in a Cinquecento. Then it should run like this :devil::

[ame]https://youtu.be/g7BZrh-Jpdg?t=14s[/ame]
 
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I have a 1.4 ready to be swapped but I think the 176B9000 will be better suited for the Cinquecento. Meanwhile I guess I will keep the Punto since it has very little rust (plus a working aircon) and put the 1.4 in it instead.
 
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Now that it's been six months since I crashed the car after the rear spun out on me without warning I'm trying to come up with various ways to put more weight on the rear. It's notoriously light and I'm not going to crash a second Cinquecento this way.

One of the ideas that I have is to design a Lancia Delta Integrale air-brake-style spoiler. Putting aside the technical aspect of "engineering" such a thing to live on the Fiat's boot lid I wonder if it could have an actual effect. Do any of you guy's know how the Lancia wing worked in the real world or know any descriptions of how it affected Delta's handling?

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Realistically, are you ever going to be fast enough for downforce to actually work? I'm no aerodymanacist so can't really comment but I doubt it will have much effect.

I would suggest nailing the suspension, i.e. proper adjustable dampers, top mounts and spring rates all round. Then take it to someone who knows what they are talking about to set up the camber,castor ect
But before doing anything with the suspension, stick a cage in there to stiffen up the shell, it makes a massive difference and you only notice how flexible the shell is when you take a cage out!

Look at Nitrane's cinq for some inspiration.
Also StoneNewt's, however info on that sei is pretty much none existent, it was running on 16's with some serious suspension work to the extent of getting it on a jig to widen the track. I was led to believe it could outrun an elise on the track.

I've had the back end go twice on me causing a spin, and another close call, once in a greasy car park going pretty slow, once on a white line on a motorway sliproad and the close call was hooning it down a county lane,went over a crest straight into a right hander on the brakes....very tail happy 50 meters from home :eek:
Of all the spirited driving and autotests, it was always the front end that gave way first for me.
 
Round the mountains on hard bends I was reaching something like 130 kph so I guess that the airflow would be quite substantial for a nearly vertical spoiler.

Which springs and dampers are you using? I know that a professional setup will achieve best results but it will also be expensive as hell to pay someone to set it up. Besides, the suspension in Cento doesn't give you much choice, I have custom camber plates for the front and that's basically all you can do with the geometry other than through ride height and spacers.

I'm thinking about the rear roll bar with extensions to the floor at the base of A pillar. I don't want to smash my head on a metal pipe.

This spin was the only one that happened to me unintentionally. A long bend, I braked harder near the exit, the tarmac might've been greasy in that spot and then you have it. I drove the car much harder on tighter bends even with changing elevation and the only rear end play I experienced was suspension compression or side movement, maybe half a meter. I start to think that this car should be driven like an old 911 - slow in, fast out and you have to be commited throught the bend.
 
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Seems like we are all suffering from the same masochistic malady: we spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of pounds in persuit of understeer reduction only to get bitten in the ass when we finally get what we wish for...

As a consequence of my meddling, I too spun unexpectedly under braking on a damp downhill corner for the first time ever, after years of complaining about 'safe' and 'boring' and 'predictable' understeer.

I've convinced myself that it wont happen again now that I'm expecting it, and vowed to learn how to exploit it, though it does add a certain clammy puckering frisson to high speed turns that was never there before...


...a quick rack is now on my list.
 
This is exactly as I view it. You can tune as much as you want but it won't change the fact that you're driving a short wheelbase city car with light rear end.

Judging from my experience, when you're carrying speed and keep the throttle where it should be there's no need to worry about the rear spinning on you. Fast wide bend at 110 kph, I press the brakes much harder than advised on a corner, rear stepped out a tiny bit to indicate that it's not happy but stayed in check. No problem. What you should actually be afraid of are slow corners with deceleration when the front axle is not pulling the rest forward. When that force equalizes with rear then anything can happen. So the solution is to always drive like you're on fire - "officer, I was doing a 140 because otherwise I would've spun." XD

You don't have a quick rack? Man, that's a mod I couldn't live without. You need to get it right away. I wish I had a 2.8 rack.
 
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As far as I know there are only two racks: non-PAS (4.0) and PAS (3.2) so if the car had the electric power steering it had the short rack. Look for OE 46847283 or General Ricambi FI4133.
 
As far as I know there are only two racks: non-PAS (4.0) and PAS (3.2) so if the car had the electric power steering it had the short rack. Look for OE 46847283 or General Ricambi FI4133.
The 3.2 turn rack from the PAS cars can be used without the electric power steering right ?
 
Been toying with the seicento PAS rack idea for years but I used to live in London and I run 195 tyres; the low/no speed steering effort makes me worry that I'm gonna rip the steering wheel off one day as it is - how much difference to low speed effort does the 3.2 rack make?

I love the unassisted steering feel at speed so I would never want to fit the numb electric system.
 
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