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Old 28-07-2017   #31
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Many thanks to Franglais for his regular updates,both interesting & informative I have enjoyed reading the posts.Having some empathy with many a similar predicament.I'm a newbie to the Marea having just acquired a 99 Weekend JTD 2.4TD.

I suspect a clutch change on the 5 pot is just as challenging.No doubt invoking many an expletive!
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Old 02-08-2017   #32
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Nice
@cinque cilindri

Whare are you based?

Charlie . Oxford
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 02-08-2017 at 10:02.
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Old 02-08-2017   #33
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Burton on Trent,Staffs
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Old 02-08-2017   #34
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Fellow owners never seem to be local !

Karl
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Old 02-08-2017   #35
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Maybe see you at MITCAR show..??

Charlie . Midlands Italia
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Old 04-10-2017   #36
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Car has been feeling sloppy around corners for about a year, changing tyres didn't help much, front end turn in is slow and only bites once the car has rolled outwards from the corner, and the suspension has taken all the slack. The rear end feels like i have a distracted toddler following me around if i wobble left to right on a straight road. Country lane unevenness sent heavy judders through the car, where when i pass in the brand new company Kangoo, it glides over them effortlessly, so i convinced myself that the shocks were dead.
spoiler alert, they weren't
So the car feels better, there has definitely been some improvement, but i still have all of the problems discribed at the start, and i'm running out of ideas as to what could be the cause. It feels like the tyre side walls are made out of jelly on corners, and made out of concrete over bumpy surfaces, but i'm running brand new Michelin energy saver+ on all 4 corners.
With regards to the sloppyness, when jacked up the back axle feels stiff laterally, but im a 10 stone bonobo, i need an 18 stone gorilla to try and make it move.
the reason i suspect the rear end, is that i had the tracking done a while back, and it was fine for a short drive, but slipped off to the right, and so it now drives straight, but with the steering wheel off to the right.
i bought monroe shocks front and back, and taking off the old ones, i was already suspicious as to the worn out status i had assigned the old struts, but hey, i had new ones waiting, so i wasn't about to put them back on.
things learnt:

loosen the front strut top nut slightly before taking the suspension mount off. If they're on tight, you will need the extra purchase given by the weight of the car pushing down on the spring, this might be negated by having a set of pipe spanners, (i don't, yet) although even if you do, the allen key might round the hole with the force required.

don't take the mounting cap off, unless it is completely free if spring tension, even a tiny bit of pressure makes it super difficult to get the nut onto the new strut, i had to enlist the help of a ratchet strap, super sketchy if done wrong.

Fear the spring compressors, they will kill you if you let them, dont be a chump and use a pneumatic gun on them like some youtubers i have seen.

rear shocks, dead easy, jack up rear until both wheels are off the ground, put onto axle stands and undo bolts, top bolt is accessed through the chassis using a socket extention. Take off old shocks, for putting on new ones, do top bolt first, and jack up the wheel until bottom bolt aligns and you can slide it through easily.

While i had the tools out, i went for the 160,000km oil and filter change, and stuck in a couple of new fog lights, old ones had chipped and broken glass.

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Marea Weekend 2002 Saint Moritz JTD 110 The thread
Marea Weekend 1999 ELX TD100 (DECEASED head gasket failure)
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Old 08-10-2017   #37
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Half the trouble with sloppy suspension is, that it is so hard to quantify any differences once changes have been made, it's all about "feel".
I decided to have another look underneath the front end this weekend, and gave the subframe bolts a re-torque, i figured that seeing as i dropped the subframe a year ago for the clutch change, they might be due another looking at, and it "feels" a bit better.
Quite worrying though, I have lost the big 18mm head bolt, that is only accessible through the wishbone hole part number 18787124, I am ashamed that I didn't tighten it enough in the first place, and that it took me so long to spot the error, especially seeing as i have done work on the front end of car since then.
It might explain a little, trip to the breakers yard imminent, as nothing is coming up as available online.
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Marea Weekend 2002 Saint Moritz JTD 110 The thread
Marea Weekend 1999 ELX TD100 (DECEASED head gasket failure)
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Old 09-10-2017   #38
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

I've heard of a broken/missing bolt in that location causing vague handling on Tipo platform cars before, we're talking about the big one at the front of the subframe, yes?

I have a spare, but might be a bit far (Correze), think it should still be available from Fiat.
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Old 09-10-2017   #39
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

I presume that you had a good look at all the rubbers around the various suspension components... ARB droplinks etc ? The car is getting old now so many will be tired or perished, and since the design and materials are non-german they should be realistically treated as "consumables".

Also check the rear subframe as their mounting bushes inevitably deteriorate / disintegrate... you can find them on Ebay from Firstline / Borg & Beck, listed variouskly for Brava / Marea / Multipla / Tipo. It's a biggish job but has been described on some threads in the Brava / Bravo / Marea forums.

I don't know if the springs themselves can deteriorate on a heavyish estate car.. you seem to have a combination of harshness and sloppiness! When I had a budget suspension refresh on my Brava 1.2 I had cheapish Suplex springs fitted with Gabriel shocks and teh car now feels great (still needs the rear subframe doing).

Also the rear trailing arm bearings can go and there are rebuild kits available. (I think Puntos are worse for this though).
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Old 09-10-2017   #40
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Quote Originally Posted by bluejohn125 View Post
I presume that you had a good look at all the rubbers around the various suspension components... ARB droplinks etc ? The car is getting old now so many will be tired or perished, and since the design and materials are non-german they should be realistically treated as "consumables".
yes, i have some new drop links for the ARB on the way, order validated, awaiting expedition. They have been on knocking for a short while, and are getting worse. On the country roads round here, i seem to be changing suspension drop links, wishbone triangles and steering ball joints, every two years! definitely consumables.
Engine mounts are a little cracked, but no where near failed IMHO. i have been wrong before though....

Quote Quote:
Also check the rear subframe as their mounting bushes inevitably deteriorate / disintegrate... you can find them on Ebay from Firstline / Borg & Beck, listed variouskly for Brava / Marea / Multipla / Tipo. It's a biggish job but has been described on some threads in the Brava / Bravo / Marea forums.
i would love to get a whole rear axle from a HGT, disk brakes included, and also the front disk and caliper upgrade while im at it, and that would certainly make the removal of the axle worthwhile, but that's another story. The rear bushes seem to be in reasonable condition, visually at least, but you know, visual access is tricky.

Quote Quote:
I don't know if the springs themselves can deteriorate on a heavyish estate car.. you seem to have a combination of harshness and sloppiness! When I had a budget suspension refresh on my Brava 1.2 I had cheapish Suplex springs fitted with Gabriel shocks and teh car now feels great (still needs the rear subframe doing).
Springs DO deteriorate, and mine are in a condition that can be expected for a 15 year old car, I have umm'ed and ah'ed as to whether i should change them, but a cheap new set would be 150Euros for the monroes, and 200 for the KYBs. That is putting me off a little, but mosly from the reading i have done, only the ride height is affected with worn out springs, the ride is all down to the shocks, and other components

Quote Quote:
Also the rear trailing arm bearings can go and there are rebuild kits available. (I think Puntos are worse for this though).
yes, this has crossed my mind, but i'm reluctant to dive in, without having aforementioned HGT rear (i have an automatic search set up on LeBonCoin (French fleabay/craigspisst)

Thanks for the suggestions,
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Marea Weekend 2002 Saint Moritz JTD 110 The thread
Marea Weekend 1999 ELX TD100 (DECEASED head gasket failure)
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Old 09-10-2017   #41
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Quote Originally Posted by Steve145 View Post
I've heard of a broken/missing bolt in that location causing vague handling on Tipo platform cars before, we're talking about the big one at the front of the subframe, yes?

I have a spare, but might be a bit far (Correze), think it should still be available from Fiat.
thanks, but, i'll phone FIAT in Dijon and see if they can get one cheap-ish, if not, i'll pop by a few breakers this week. I'll prefer new, as they are awful to get off, and are likely to be damaged.
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Marea Weekend 2002 Saint Moritz JTD 110 The thread
Marea Weekend 1999 ELX TD100 (DECEASED head gasket failure)
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Old 09-10-2017   #42
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Quote Originally Posted by franglais View Post
thanks, but, i'll phone FIAT in Dijon and see if they can get one cheap-ish, if not, i'll pop by a few breakers this week. I'll prefer new, as they are awful to get off, and are likely to be damaged.
Depends on your definition of cheap... bought some wishbone bolts last year, about 5 each.
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Old 09-10-2017   #43
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

If you want rear disks, look for HLX mareas (or 2.4 diesels). More common than HGTs.

Beware that you might need the whole master cylinder and abs as the newer ones have electric rear brake balancer and different volume master for the rear disks.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #44
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Quote Originally Posted by Neverth View Post
If you want rear disks, look for HLX mareas (or 2.4 diesels). More common than HGTs.

Beware that you might need the whole master cylinder and abs as the newer ones have electric rear brake balancer and different volume master for the rear disks.
yes, thanks, i must have had a brain fart, i did know that, but my brain refused to work

After much waiting, the FIAT garage near me actually managed to get some new subframe front bolts, 13 Euros each, I installed them today, and it has made a big difference, the front end vagueness has all but gone, i think what i can feel now is just tyre wall roll, and a lot of the juddering over bumps has been reduced, but not all. My next angle of attack is the engine mounts, my hypothesis is that the engine is acting as a kind of counter weight. The car is 15 years old, and so in any case, i can probably safely say, there is no original rubber in pristine condition left.
getting there, one paycheck at a time.
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Marea Weekend 2002 Saint Moritz JTD 110 The thread
Marea Weekend 1999 ELX TD100 (DECEASED head gasket failure)

Last edited by franglais; 3 Weeks Ago at 19:24. Reason: added price of bolt
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #45
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Re: Marea Weekend Saint Moritz JTD 110

Good to hear spend=RESULT

Which bolts..and how have they made a difference..
Just down tight( reseated) now...
?
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