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Seicento "Grey Matter" - finally back in a Sei!

Introduction

Hi! My name's Jesper and I live in Odense, Denmark. 33 years old and I've been hanging around in here since 2006, mainly lurking in the shadows.

Back in 2005 I bought a money pit of a Sei and now I've gone and bought myself one, again. Same colour, different everything apart from the money pit detail.
I couldn't resist when I got this offer from a acquaintance of mine whom I got to know when I had my first Seicento. He's a good man - I think he just lost his patience and reprioritised to focus on his family and business rather than pouring funds into something which will only depreciate further.

More photos will come at a later point, so this is merely an introduction. CBA to was and polish it, yet - too much mechanical stuff needs to be done.

The engine and gearbox have done 99.600km at this point and nothing apart from brakes, cooler and a few cables has been done, mechanically since 1999 and it has only been driven occasionally three Winters.
Underseal was done years ago and will be done again before I store it for the coming Winter.

The following changes has been made by the previous owner:

Rear arches rolled (proper job)
Yellow Koni shocks
60/40 lowering kit (KAW and Ventura)
6.5x15 ET32 Barchetta steelies @ 15mm spacers with Nankang 165/45 :yuck:
Debadged front and rear + poor job of covering the boot lock :rolleyes:
J&R pod filter (n)
280 degree C&B cam :devil:
Head ported and skimmed
Different inlet manifold
Custom 2" exhaust (loud li'l' bugger)
Gas bonnet struts
Supersprint exhaust manifold
Bosch chip

It also had quite massive custom skirts and bumpers with Smoor wheels, all of which was sold at some point. I'm not allowed to copy photos from the site, so you'll have to live with a link to the profile at "bilgalleri.dk"

http://www.bilgalleri.dk/galleri/1450-fiat_seicento

Interior:

Custom leather/green alcantara with yellow stichings
6.5" speakers in the parcel shelf (but why? :confused: Can't hear'em anyway!)

In the deal I managed to score his NOS 14" Abarth wheels which will be fitted at some point. I will likely go for 165/55-14 as they are road legal (+4,73% circumference of 165/55-13) and a lot cheaper than 175/50-14. Possibly a bit more comfortable as well and they should fill out the arches nicely.


What needs work:

Likely the clutch and cable, beforelong
Paint falling off on the left, front wing
Fronts discs and pads
Stock air filter case with some mods
Different exhaust (CSC or whatever I find with a good price/quality ratio)
40mm TB
New headlights (on their way)
-35mm H&R springs (maybe - prev. owner lost the papers on the existing springs)
New strut mounts (so might as well change the springs)
Likely every suspension bush on the car, lol
Fluids change
Cambelt, tensioner, waterpump and refitting a cambelt cover
Rubber side strip for the left side of the car.
Paint my set of Abarth skirts and fit them if I ever find an Abarth roof/rear spoiler.

There used to be a 40mm TB on the car, but Tricker turned up the fuel regulator and at some point it started having a heavy smell of petrol inside the car. At first, the remapped chip was replaced with the Bosch one (I still have the remapped chip). As this made no difference, a stock TB was fitted and the 40mm one was binned/sold.
I hope a 40mm TB with an untouched regulator will work out with the remapped chip as the engine was pushing past 85BHP in its time.

I want a "sleeper" car which runs faster than it looks, drawing as little attention as possible until I floor the throttle! :yum:


Idle is sort of lumpy once the engine gets up to temperature. A stop/start of a thoroughly warmed up engine has it idling on the verge of stalling.
I'm contemplating giving it an ECU reset as per: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento-guides/94040-how-change-ecu-chip.html
Awaiting spare parts:

Strut mounts
Brake discs + pads
Drums + shoes
CV joint
Stabilizer bushes

And just for the hell of it a bit of rev limit sound track - not that I'm a fan of this in any way TBH, but I was curious to hear what it sounded like with this exhaust.

[ame]http://youtu.be/zHjkx_oRq6g[/ame]

Quite a deep tone to it. It's about 10x as loud inside the car. I also hold the revs around the annoying flat spot (between 2-3.000rpm for a few seconds) where it has a tendency to gargle a bit.
 
Oh, and 'drive like a nun' is now overwith. The 100% city test gave a whopping 7.69L/100km or 36.7MPG (imperial).
This includes my drive to work straight through the city centre with heaps of traffic and red lights.

Compared to many modern cars it's a dreadful result, but for the engine's state of tune I find it quite good.

Later in August I have a ~400km roundtrip coming which should allow me to check out how good milage I can get. I seriously doubt it's much worse than stock.
 
I spend 10\20€ on gas from time to time :D
Nice exhaust sound (y)
Also, what tires you using?

Thanks! Quite an easy sound to achieve as it's merely a couple of straight-through absorbtion silencers on a 2" cat-back. If you have access to a welder it can be built for not a lot of money.

Summer/Abarth: 165/55R14 Ovation VI-682
Winter/Sporting: 155/65R13 Hankook Winter Icept... something-something.

Petrol prices dropped 10% Thursday so I brimmed the tank. 7,46L/100km, still only city driving and this time I wasn't even trying, i.e. 50kph in 3rd gear, 60-70kph in 4th. Plugs look fine as well.
The ECU must be 'settling in' after the last reset. Apart from the flat spot it's running great.

The coolant level has dropped slightly after I topped it up a month ago. Looks like 0.2L or so, hardly anything to be worried about. Still looks like there's oil in the coolant, but as the oil level isn't dropping and I see no added deposits anywhere, I'm starting to believe (hope!) nothing's wrong at all.
It's a Fiat, I'm paranoid. That opens up for only positive suprises! :)
 
I stopped making milage counts, just refuel when needed as its less painfull so to speak :D Dont know about Denmark, but we get to pay 1,67€ per litre here in Portugal :bang:
Oh so you have a midle box as final exhaust? Thats why is so loud :p
About the Ovation tires... Well never tried them, but im guessing i'll never will as i dont like chinese brands. Wasnt you that had Nankangs and spinned? (n)
 
I stopped making milage counts, just refuel when needed as its less painfull so to speak :D Dont know about Denmark, but we get to pay 1,67€ per litre here in Portugal :bang:
Oh so you have a midle box as final exhaust? Thats why is so loud :p
About the Ovation tires... Well never tried them, but im guessing i'll never will as i dont like chinese brands. Wasnt you that had Nankangs and spinned? (n)

I'm only taking mileage to feed my curiousity. If I start crying every time I have to fill up a tank, I can't afford to have a car. :p I was expecting it to use more fuel than my first one, as this engine has quite a few mods on it.

95 octane has been around €1.50-1.60 for a month, but a few months ago it was €1.70-1.80, so there isn't much difference between us. It can vary as much as €0.15 from day to day (cheaper at night), so I more or less keep the tank full when the price is low.


True, both are middle silencers. Most of the noise inside the car is caused by the rear one exiting behind the bumper. I'll have it relocated once given the chance if I don't build my own 42-44mm system, instead.


The Ovation tires were the cheapest compromise I could find to get the Abarth rims fitted. I could only get four year old 175/50 Pirelli's at something like €150 a corner which they aren't worth to me and 195/45 on 5.5" wide rims is just wrong.
The 165/45R15 Nankangs where stretched over 6.5" and combined with ET22 all around, the car would suddenly oversteer, e.g. the rear lost grip with no warning whatsoever. I think it was due to a combination of compound, stretch, offset and unevenly matched springrates (front: HARD, rear: medium).
The car went sideways while I was driving semi-hard but didn't spin out because I'm that good... er, lucky! :eek:
The new profile and offset provides better feedback and the car now understeers more. In fact it does't seem prone to lose rear-end grip at all and I have access to a big, private parking lot where I can go find out under safer circumstances than on public roads.

The Abarth rims are temporary till I find 'the right set' of 6x14" rims to which I'll fit 195/45 tires of a much better quality. Till then I'm aware I shouldn't push it... so I won't!
Once I find the right rims I'll sell the Abarth ones. They're only getting rarer as time passes which is to my advantage as far as selling them is concerned.


I'll buy a set of new springs as well to make sure front/rear match better. Just can't decide whether I should go for the Weitec ST/KW 40/30, KAW 60/40 or be old and settle for H&R 35/30 as the latter to my knowledge is really good quality, i.e. proper progressive springs that are evenly matched and should match my Koni dampers quite well.
 
Eibach 30/30 springs are out of the question. Just found a photo of a Sei with these springs combined with 155/70R13 tire fitment which have a slightly larger diameter than anything I consider an option.
The photo is pretty self explanatory - stock to the right.

H&R 35/35 is based on the non-sporting models, I've found out, so that leaves me with KAW 60/40 or the ST 40/30 kit.
The car is on 60/40 now and is far from a decent ride... ST 40/30 it is, then.

ETA: Within one week from Monday.

Once my holiday is over, this will hopefully be the final result:

New headlights (done)
40mm TB (done)
Resprayed front left wing
Fresh springs and strut mounts (ordered)
Strongflex ARB bushes (ordered)
New brake discs, pads, drums and shoes all round (ordered)
Brake caliper clean and will paint them green or yellow (trying to match the interior)
New tires (done)
New cambelt, tensioner and alternator belt (ordered)
Oil and coolant flush/change.
New right side CV joint (ordered)
Modified stock intake (easy job - can wait till last)
Plenty of swearing and de-skinned knuckles

On the maybe-this-but-likely-next-year-list:

ECU Master DET3 piggyback
New exhaust or the existing one will be modified slightly
Abarth sideskirts
Lester rear spoiler

I've likely forgotten a few things but at least I won't be sitting around doing nothing, heh...
 

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Im on the same boat as you, dont know what springs to use.
Probably some TA Technix and B6 Bilsteins or something similar.

Oh i thought gas was cheaper in DK :p
For the exhaust, well, dont have the knowledge to help you better.
I think im going for a straight pipe with stock back box or a Grp N one (kinda)
 
I've just ordered the ST/Weitec/KW 40/30 springs, mate. :)

I'd go for Koni shocks or the complete ST kit in your case. If you can wait till I've fitted the new springs and tested the thoroughly, I may be able to help you decide.
New springs on stock shocks are a pain and not worth it.

As mentioned earlier, my Sei has two different sets of springs, front/back. The KAW -60mm in front are HARD and quite low. The rear ones seem softer and are either Weitec or Cobra/Ventura. Previous owner can't remember nor find the papers and he's mentioned them all, lol!
 
Ill wait for your review ;)
Wasn't going to put new springs on my old shocks as they are shot, i need new ones and im thinking on Bilstein B6's. Never tried Koni Sport but always read that they're too stiff even on the softer "setup".
 
The Koni Sport shocks make for a harsher ride of sorts, but nowhere near as uncomfortable or out of control as standard shocks with too big a drop!

I fiddled around with the settings on the front shocks, yesterday. They were at the 'softest' setting for a lack of better words. (Wouldn't "faster/slower" be more appropriate?).
Turned the screw to middle position and was expecting a bouncier ride, but instead I now experience the car as balanced with just a tad understeer. Ride comfort is in fact improved as the front is mich less bouncy as before.

I'm thinking the shocks now have adequate control of the springs' movement?

We have some long, bendy on-/off ramps at the motorway not far from here, some of which are advised 45kph-turns. Did one at 60kph+ to get a hang of the difference from the newly adjusted shocks. Definetely more neutral as the front wasn't pushed as much out of the turn. In fact, all four corners were almost letting go simultaneously when I pushed hard enough.
Half-way through one of these bends I was going wide and eased off the throttle, expecting the rear to twitch or even the car to go sideways. Instead grip was restored and I could go through the turn with no drama whatsoever.

Speedbumps were quite the pain, before, as the front felt as if it almost let go of the road though unless I crawled slowly over bumps at a pace I'd only expect from an extreme drop (70mm or more). Moreso than the FK coilover-kit I had fitted to my old Sei! :shock:
Now the front wheels feel like they're hugging the road much better, even under such extreme conditions as a speedbump. Rear is still bouncy but there's no point in fiddling with the rear shocks, yet.

The Weitec kit is on its way and the Strongflex ARB bushes came yesterday. I'm getting quite excited to find out how the new springs + ARB bushes change things.


As for the Ovation 165/55R14 tires:

Grippy, dry/wet? In both cases grip is acceptable and with no surprises!
Feedback? Good enough for this profile, though turn-in seems a bit wooly.
Noisy? No. In fact they're surprisingly quiet.

They're faring better than expected and are a million times better in every way than the horrible Nankang 165/45R15! For a cheap tire and everyday use, they are fine on a 'Cento.
Will recommend (so far) if you are willing to take them for what they are, Chinese tires. I wouldn't blast away at 180kph+ with them, nor shoot down to the local racetrack and expect much more than spending more time off the track than average. :p


The before-mentioned on-/off ramps have me looking eagerly for 6x14" or 6-7x15" rims, BTW. Symptom of the Cento Fever, perhaps?
If I had the money, I'd order 7x15 OZ Ultra Leggera and Avon ZV-3 (awesome thread) in 195/45R15 in a heartbeat!
 
Nice explanation, thank you.
Where did you ordered the arb bushes and the Weitec kit, if you dont mind me asking.
Im going to put 14" wheels on my cento with maybe 175\50 or 185\45 tires.
Whatever comes cheaper :D
 
Weitec springs through Ebay.de (there's a 10% discount on their webpage, BTW)
ARB bushes through Strongflex.eu
Cheapest tires will likely be 195/45R14 (more to choose from) then 185/50R14 (fewer to choose from and rather expensive) and finally 175/50R14 (basically only Pirelli P6000 and they're both expensive and getting old).

195mm width suits 6" wide rims. Take a wild guess why my Abarth wheels are a temporary solution! :p Why oh why didn't Fiat just make these rims 0.5" wider?! :p


On another note:

Went for a 150km round-trip, yesterday. Counted a total of 12 Seicento and 10 Cinqs. :) Generally speaking, older cars with less things prone to breaking are hugely popular and as only the SX, Suite and Young models have PAS the Sportings are kept alive. This also says something about how well-built these cars are and how easy they are to keep running.
 
Brembo Max discs arrived today (€28 for a pair!) along with pads, drums, shoes and strut mounts. Only need the springs and a couple of days of sunshine. Oh, and some caliper paint. :)
 
Brembo Max discs arrived today (€28 for a pair!) along with pads, drums, shoes and strut mounts. Only need the springs and a couple of days of sunshine. Oh, and some caliper paint. :)

What?! 28€ por a pair?! Im really not use to the price for cento parts :D
Ebay? I cant use my paypal as i dont remember my password or key answer :bang:
Gonna check the bushings though (y)
I'm going to use Lancia delta wheels, i think they're 6" too. As for the tires, well, probably use 195\45.
Shame my 13" wheels are shot or i would buy some toyos or Advan a048 just for the fun :D
 
Yellow Strongflex for the ARB. Everywhere else I'll keep stock bushes to retain some sort of comfort. I just got into my head that the ARB bushes might as well be made of the strongest stuff available.

Brembo Max are AFAIK just their normal discs with grooves and an anti-corrosion coating. Still a good price and I'm pairing them up with some standard SBS pads. Also got some Brembo drums and shoes. There's nothing magic about Brembo as such - they make OEM parts, as well.

Kind of strange that my discs aren't coated black like they normally are. Doesn't matter - just need them to work! :)
 

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First of all, regarding the Brembo discs, they are coated. It's just a very thin layer which makes them look more grey than black. TBH it looks more like Hammerite than anything else which I honestly think it is. Must be cheaper than oiling the parts! :p
Can't wait to try them out. Looking forward to other set of brake pads as well as the ones fitted now are messy as heck!


Springs arrived today which means I can get going, hopefully tomorrow. Looks like my review will have a twist in a more moderate direction, though. The springs I've received are -35mm ones as opposed to -40mm/30mm as advertised.
Normally I'd be :bang: :mad: (n) but as it turns out my 2nd car is on its last months due to rust - having gone through the things that need done, besides the rust, I am looking at spending more than the car's worth.

This means the Sei will be my primary ride for at least a year as things have also taken a turn for the worse as far as economy goes. Basically went from having a healthy savings account to absolutely nowt within a week. :cry: I am broke for now.


So, tight Koni Sport shocks on Weitec ST -35mm springs it is, then. Add to that some of the hardest ARB bushes available! :D


On the bright side of things:

Can in fact end up with a good compromise between sporty/comfy with acceptable body roll AND be nowhere near having problems with the future 7x15" wheels and 195/45 profile tires.

Kind of tempted to fit a stock exhaust, for now.
 

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Gave the car a wash and drove out for a little photo session. It started raining on the way to my location... so much for washing the car! :p At least I got rid of the leftovers from the duct tape and now the side strips are in place.
Gave the tires a bit of shine, as well. Good thing I gave the rims a slight polish and wax when I fitted them - brake dust wiped right off. (y)
 

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