Panda (Classic) My Sisley, Panda 4x4 - division north

Just a quick summary after trip to Italy, some one might find it usefull as a guide to what to look on and which spares are worth to be taken.

Our trip involved taking a ferry from Hull to Rotterdam so less miles in UK but we've done more miles on B and C roads in Germany, Austria and Italy. Total millage came up to 2840 miles.

This was something deffinately new to me as I haven't driven Siley for more than 50 miles a day . I was aware that engine is using "some " oil but due to longer distance, higher ambient temp, constant hi speed driving, really steep inclines the oil usage become an issue! after 300 miles ride from Rotterdam the engine oil dip stick was absolutely dry!!!!
Next factor which just make the situation worse was that the 5 l spare oil bottle in my boot was 10W40 grade which just been pissing thru the piston rings. On the way to Lucca it was a matter of topping up in the morning and afternoon.

By saying Hi speed driving i'm thinking of max 55mph as the gearbox noise and engine pinking was getting to loud.

Radiator fan overide swich is a MUST if you're thinking of driving panda for extended periods in unknown terrain.

As my temp gauge reads +25 dgrees C over actual temperature my normal running temp was 95*C shown, while climing thru Passo dela Stelvio the pointer was on the red 120*C - it was running still ok but the actual fact of such a high read out was making me fell as the engine going to explode soon - and we're still not in panda land.

Sticking starter motor was giving some signs allong the road but the peak was in Parma late night when we've been desperately looking for camp site. If you're starte
Next issue was sticking starter motor will jam/ be sticky just open bonet - go there - grab the wheel nut wrench stick it down to starter solenoid and gently tap it - you're sorted now!

Again, Passo dela Stelvio - realy high running temperature, plus latitiude/presure changes caused my leaking/wet front strut to dropp the whole oil and make mess inside the weel arch, timing belt cover decided to warp as well, coolant cap was pissing the water thru as well so spare cap was placed streigh after.

Passo dela Stelvio clearly killed my outer CV joints - pass side for sure as the clacking noise when taking the sharp bend was oboius on full lock low speed. I might be wrong and it is front differential not cv but this will need to be investigated.

Driving with Oil-less shock absorber was noticible on the curvy roads - i was glad it was not wet/raining.

On the way down after few minutes of breaking suspicious smell was noticed - stinky socks !!! I've stop in first safe place - gone outside to look under bonnet - the brakes were smoking - hot hot hot !!! what cheap chinease **** those pads must be - on it's way out now, EBC greenstuff and grooved/drilled disc will be fitted soon.

High running temperature had some bad influence on lenght of my timming best as well as the water pump pulley was making higher and higher noise.

Gearbox was filled with 20W50 engine oil from wilko, oil level rechecked mid way other then running noise which was there already not a single problem . Rear axle with new shaft seal done well.

Thanks to Franco, local spare parts shop close to Lucca was visited ( Andy's back box collected) and some more 15W40 oil purchased + "engine stop smoke" additive. With extra 5l bottle from German motorway service we've made it to ferry port .Faulty shock absorber was totaly fu*$@#d! Probably been damaged (more) during offroad section. Main rod was no longer in-line with the cylinder body any turning was causing the strut assy to bend from one side to the other.

Key things:
- correct engine oil grade,
- best quality brake pads you can buy.
- OE timming belt.
- lots of other bits.

exciting journey

Grooved/drilled 227mm/10.9mm discs in panda are not a good idea, you'll further reduce the pad/disc contact area, holes and grooves do absolutelly nothing in driving speeds/conditons panda 4x4 can attain, only reduce contact surface. I had green stuff in modded 127 mk1, again bad idea IMHO.When very hot brakes were bit better, but in normal driving conditions pads like lucas/trw or ferodo premier are more versatile.{ I prefer softer pads}

Improving brakes mean makng surface contact, heat capacity and diameter of the disc bigger . try 240mm/12mm from selecta/y10 turbo{ plug&play and this type of brakes has the same pad type as bigger 257mm discs from ritmo/regata/delta etc}} or 240mm/11mm from uno diesel/seicento/cnq etc, or 240/20mm vented from palio siena uno turbo etc. All 240mm are ok with 13 inch rims, but require some mods to fit to panda. Next fiat size 257mm requires 14 inch rims.

Been busy yesterday collecting set of sisley seat and pair of Mazda mx5/ eunos seats as well. IMHO those mazda seats are best available out there for cheap money (£30 pair ). Today hoard of panda parts been delivered, so no need to worry about sisley gearbox. Lots to do now including engine swap,

Mx5 seats are same as i had fitted to our ex suzuki carry. Sisley (grey) set isn't in pristine condition, few splits and cracks in the vinyl same as in my current one, so the plan is to have one A- condition sisley seats set (for sale) made out of those two and re-trim centre section of Mx5 seats with remaining centre fabric from sisley seats with kanu logo. Seat frame will be fabricated as well to avoid floor driling and provide enough structural strength.


If anybody consider fiting same seats type, i'll make CAD drawings/notes for the frame so it will be possible to fabricate set in the future.

Guys, I might need second opinion from off-road tyres user.

Basically I need to decide which tyres I will go for.
So far the Trac 4x4 were the chosen ones, they might be briliant while off-roading and it is wise to have them fitted to second pair of rims.

They is plenty green lanes round Scar'bo all within 30 minutes drive, on tarmac of course, lots of step inclines and down hill sections with lots of sharp bends, and it often wet.

When going down to Off-road course or attending Panday - Off road there is no problem with taking road wheels to get there, especially if you have nice full length roof rack. But if i will be driving 15 or 30 miles along A170 to do few lanes ( normally on my own) I can't see myself swaping the wheels there and back.

I've done some reserch and come up with Fedima F/OR medium compound S3



Bit more expencive as they cost 53 euro each + 25 euro shiping cost from Germany providing better handling on tarmac including wet condiitions, less road noise.

As the pattern is less agressive especialy at the sides and they will go on to my weller rims with spacers im planing to go for 155/80R13.

Fedima FOR Offroad Medium.



Part number: FOR-1315580-S3
(20% Tarmac 80% Off-Road)
155/80R13 79Q M+S
Diameter: 588mm
Circumference 1846mm
Wide 150mm
Thread dept 9,5mm
Studable


Fedima seems to be well know manufacturer in motorsport groups, they do offer all sort of tyres including well known paterns made from different compound (S3 hardness is 60 to 62 A shore ) base tyres used for remoulds are van type or commercial.


Available in 145/80, 155/70, 155/80


What you guys think? Can the Trac 4x4 be used on daily basis including commutiong to work 19 miles there and back from time to time?
How fast do they wear?

Oooh, looks good, may have to invest in some of these myself. Could the 155's cause issues with the fuel filler neck?

Just put the studs in and wear the road out....

Chunky tyres always seem to wear quickly but i put it down to less on road contact due to the large gaps in the tread pattern.

The noise will probably put you off commuting in them though.

I'm going to look for some winter tyres that have a more aggressive looking tread pattern but won't drive me crackers whilst driving!

Freebo said:

Oooh, looks good, may have to invest in some of these myself. Could the 155's cause issues with the fuel filler neck?

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If you concern , go for 145/80 with some spacers.
Wellers are bit diffferent offset and stick out bit more.

John, noise should not be the main issue, i'm more worry about the "floating tyre" effect with trac 4x4.

this is their website.

In German but simple to navigate and understand
http://www.fedima.de/de/index.html

type tyre width in search at the top and browse thru.

Some nice boots there.


Tractor ones as well
http://www.fedima.de/de-agrarreifen-CR1-1315580-Fedima-CR1-Small-Traktor.html

I'd be interested to see what the Fedima's are like, I was thinking of getting a set of Malatesta Trac for the red 4x4 for September and eventually for Digger, but the noise and handling puts me off, I'd rather avoid having to change wheels all the time if possible.

In the meantime I have bought another set of Verdestein Quatrac to go on the red one to replace the mismatched set on there at the moment. I already have them on the Sisley, they are all season and are M+S rated, tread pattern looks slightly aggressive but they work well on the road.

BTW my Land Rover has been wearing the same set of chunky tyres for the last 40,000 miles, they would probably do another 5,000 atleast before being illegal, so they don't all wear that quickly!

panda1408 said:

I'd be interested to see what the Fedima's are like, .... but the noise and handling puts me off, I'd rather avoid having to change wheels all the time if possible.

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Same reasons here Freddy, looks like soMEone has to try.

Are there any UK supplies that you know of Jacob?

Tyredirect is their distributor, but not listed on their site.

http://www.superpanda.de/dateien/posts/159173/IMG_2648.jpg



photo of 145/80R13

I'll send emaild to TD tommorow and report back, if no good news i'll go thru that German shop as paypal is accepted and Euro to GBP still in our favour.

If you can find good quality remoulds there in UK try and get copy of nokian hakkapeliitta 2 , best mud/winter tyre ever, not 3 or 4, it must be "hakkapeliitta 2" I am talking about remoulds because I doubt you can get them new anymore.Most versatile tyre for panda 4x4 IMHO, and I have tried about 10 different tyre types so far.

Bartpanda said:

If you can find good quality remoulds there in UK try and get copy of nokian hakkapeliitta 2 , best mud/winter tyre ever, not 3 or 4, it must be "hakkapeliitta 2" I am talking about remoulds because I doubt you can get them new anymore.Most versatile tyre for panda 4x4 IMHO, and I have tried about 10 different tyre types so far.

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No need for remoulds
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nokian-Ha...3-165-80R13-/171884839694?hash=item280522830e

the UK is a bit iffy when it comes to studded tyres.. i wanted some but pretty much every 4x4 enthusiast, mechanic and tyre fitter all came back to me saying that they are more trouble than they are worth.

im pretty sure that they can only be used "on snow and ice" and never on tarmac here. meaning that you would be swapping wheels around all the time. also if ANY damage is done to ANYTHING caused by a studded tyre you get the book thrown at you E stamped or not :/ also they will fine you and add 3 points to your licence per tyre!
if you ask me that does seem a bit harsh though?

again, this is only going on what i have been told. i guess it is well worth looking up the law when it comes to them.

Dragon Man said:

the UK is a bit iffy when it comes to studded tyres.. i wanted some but pretty much every 4x4 enthusiast, mechanic and tyre fitter all came back to me saying that they are more trouble than they are worth.

im pretty sure that they can only be used "on snow and ice" and never on tarmac here. meaning that you would be swapping wheels around all the time. also if ANY damage is done to ANYTHING caused by a studded tyre you get the book thrown at you E stamped or not :/ also they will fine you and add 3 points to your licence per tyre!
if you ask me that does seem a bit harsh though?

again, this is only going on what i have been told. i guess it is well worth looking up the law when it comes to them.

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Yup. Think you are bang on.

Metal studs are, as far as i am aware illegal for the road. (Rubber ones however ARE legal)

So firstly, insurance companies won't touch a car with metal studded tyres (good luck driving it on the road then), secondly, As above, they'll try and pin every pimple they find on the road you get spotted on onto your tyres and it is 3 points per tyre = full set = ban. Plus a fine for driving an illegal car.... and driving a car with no insurance because it has been invalidated with the tyres.

Basically, it's about as "serious" as it gets in the eyes of our law.

Welcome to Britain.

Guys, hakkapeliitta 2 are sold without studs, you can buy studs and push them later to the tyre, but it is pointless in UK climate and against your regulations.I bought them new and used them without studs Studded tyres are also illegal in Poland on the public roads, they can be used only in motorsport and only when road owner grants the permission to use them

Just to clarify, I'm not after studed tyres.

Only if I were living in nothern Norway.

ebay link shows tyres indicated by Bartpanda, to use legally the studs would have to be removed.


I don't mind keeping a quantity of studs in a car , next to grid/salt box during winter especialy for early morning rides over to NY Moors when it all covered in snow and ice. If its icy you can easly get stuck in some vallyes down there.

Fedima F/OR 155/70R13 should be with me within few days ( DHL Air).

I went for 155/70 as my Weller rims are 5.5j.

Looking forward to have them fitted.