Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs
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Panda (Classic) John Dragon Man's 4x4 Sisley

Overview Gallery Discussion

Introduction

Hello!

Well, I have been waiting a long time to do this!

Introducing (Drum roll please!).....

Edit: about half way through the time it took me to get the car on the road it found the name Talon. So everyone Meet:
Talon. My Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley:

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Great Looking car.. As i am sure you all agree!

It has its Good points:

No Horrid noises in any gear and the 4x4 system works and sounds brilliant! Its a Sisley! And it came with some nice extras such as the light grill covers.

and also nice low mileage.
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And it has its bad points... Lots of bad points:

Mid body rust, This is the worst on the drivers side (in the UK) front wing:
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The Doors are Rusty.. Ok, i did expect this as it seems to be a common thing on most Fiats over 10-15 years old:
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And the other Door, Not as bad.. I may be able to save this side!
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"Phantom Electronics" the electronics do what they want to do, when they want to do it. No Switches necessary!

Also the Fuse box now lives here :( That means that a flap has been cut in the pocket :(
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The Exhaust is very broken, in multiple parts. even the down pipe!
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Lastly and by far the worst, Under body rust. Now its not as bad as it could be. The rear sills on both sides have a small 1 - 2 inch hole in them. No biggy.
I have still yet to remove all the plastic wheel arch liners and have a proper look.
Here's a picture from the front drivers side wheel arch, its only a skin so a easy repair:
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A bit of work needs doing to the brakes, pads i think. The fluid needs changing and the drivers side front brake pipe is corroded so i will replace that.

Also the engine needs a good cleaning up, a full on service replacing the water pump, cam belt, tensioner pulley, distributor cap and rotor arm, filters, oil, radiator, coolant and starter motor.

I also need a few things like a locking filler cap, the little clips that hold the air box together, a new boot gas strut and a non damaged back bumper.

Its the car I have always wanted right from when I was a young lad. So you can imagine how I was when I won it on eBay for a grand total of £547. Getting it from Wales To my home town of Derby Cost me £135.

With some love, care and late nights I reckon I can turn it into a cracking motor!

Oh and stay tuned as I will be keeping a Video Log of what I will be doing to the car on Youtube!

This is the video i took just as the car transporter left from delivering it:




See the rest of the videos Here: Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley Restoration Video Logs

See my Youtube Channel >>>Here<<<

Also Click Here for more up to date pictures of this car!

I am so very proud to be the owner of a Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley!

:D:D:D


Edit: this is how Talon looks now:



:eek::cool::cool::cool::yum:

Since then Talon has gained more lights, and now has some blue rust free Seat Marbella doors. I had also converted him to Fuel injection, however the parts i used were old and worn so now it is back on Carburettor.

This thread has its ups and downs but through the years Talon and myself have pulled through.

When you are done reading this thread, be sure to check out the little red scrap yard rescued Seat Marbella thread and also Project Fallout!

Peace all and enjoy the thread, videos and pictures!
  • Like
Reactions: The Panda Nut, ben, FDNY21 and 23 others
Click to expand...
well that failed.

the fuel pump i have though sold as being 4 bar, pushes out no where near enough to run this injector.

the 2.5 bar fuel pump from fallout runs it perfect but i dont want a huge swirl pot under the bonnet. besides that i have no space under there to put it.

i hate fuel pumps. there either too expensive or not powerful enough.

talon is going to be off the road for a while i think. theres no way i am going back to carb. not with all the hell it gives me.

till i can find a external fuel pump talon will remain off the road.
 
Dragon Man said:
talon is going to be off the road for a while i think. theres no way i am going back to carb. not with all the hell it gives me.
Click to expand...

I understand fuel injection is alot more convenient and easier day to day but why is your carb giving you so much grief?
Plenty of us use carb'ed models daily(myself included).
I have no starting issues at the moment and although more effort goes in to it than starting an injected car I don't find it very difficult.
I prime with a pump or two of the accel.
Turn key and adjust choke, feather throttle and she runs. Takes 20secs.
Is this the process you're not happy with or is Talon struggling to get going?
 
hmm i was playing with talon today, besides the massive air lock which has now been pumped out, i managed to get the fuel system primed.

the annoying thing is, the fuel pump seems to be too powerfull!!!! talon seems to be over fuleing loads.

as said before the engine ran fine when i used the punto 75 fuel pump and fallouts swirl pot, so i think i am going to have to some how make space for one.

i need to make space for the ECU and wiring and loads of other ECU bits and now a swirl pot which is the size of a large dog food tin :(

fun times.

i think for now i will just nick fallouts one.. i am already using its down pipe.
 
well as luck would have it, google / youtube decided to grant me a payment. so £15 of that went to buying a fuel pressure regulator.

hopefully i can set that to around 1 to 2 bar and get talon running again.

i may not even need the whole swirl pot thing at all!
the flow rate would be a little more lower so maybe the fuel lines would handle it.

all experimentation.. i will report back and tell you guys how it goes when i get the bits through the post!
 
Dragon Man said:
well as luck would have it, google / youtube decided to grant me a payment. so £15 of that went to buying a fuel pressure regulator.

hopefully i can set that to around 1 to 2 bar and get talon running again.

i may not even need the whole swirl pot thing at all!
the flow rate would be a little more lower so maybe the fuel lines would handle it.

all experimentation.. i will report back and tell you guys how it goes when i get the bits through the post!
Click to expand...

I was going to post yesterday, "do you have a fuel regulator?" I went on to ebay to look at them, got distracted and didn't post.... never mind you're there already!
 
hey guys. well the fuel pressure regulator did the trick!

i have the injector running at about 10 PSI (or 0.8 bar)

yeah i made a video last night.. show you how it all connects up if you are all interested.

also have the engine running about mid way through.

i am on the tidying and cable lengthening side of it at the moment. i have got to make it look neat!

here is the video guys!

 
well talon drives! and drives much better than before. i also can tell a lot of difference with power too. no flat spots and the throttle response is very nice.

still have some.. bugs.

sometimes while idling it will just cut out.. no reason for it, it just stops.

i really dont like the fuel regulator. i need to plumb it in differently so it works as a pressure relief valve and bleeds excess fuel back to the tank rather than restricting the flow of the pump down to 0.8 of a bar from 4 bar.
the pump blows 10 amp fuses.. so it is under some stress from the flow restriction.

i will have to look it up.
 
ok so i had the fuel pressure regulator (lets call this the FPR) just after the high pressure pump.

so the system went Tank>Filter>high pressure fuel pump> FPR> throttle body>Tank

now i was right when i said that the fuel lines were the cause of the problems i have. i just could not figure it out until i had a pressure gauge on the return fuel line. (the FPR's gauge)

a 4 bar (58PSI) pressure the fuel pump will create 20 PSI of back pressure because the fuel lines are so narrow. this 20psi caused the throttle body's built in (10psi) pressure regulator to not work because the back pressure was higher than the throttle bodys needed pressure. effectively causing the injector to run at 20PSI rather than 10PSI. causing it to over fuel.

see this video here:





so the issue was fixed by using a swirl pot.. that one i made from a split type air conditioning dryer on the previous page.

what i did was feed this using the original mechanical fuel pump through the top 2 pipe connectors(with the highest/top connector pipe being the return to the tank), then i fed the high pressure pump from the lowest/bottom connector (lowest so it is the last to suck air in) then the return feed from the throttle body to the last middle conector, one up from the lowest.

for those who cant visualise it.. i drew you a picture :)



when it is all plumbed in i ended up not needing the FPR at all! as this gave a 0PSI resistance on the return back to the swirl pot meaning that the throttle body's built in pressure regulator could happily take the 10PSI away from the 4 bar (58PSI) fuel pump with no issues.

the end result was a happy hardily any loaded fuel pump, a happy non over fuelling engine, no cutting out at idle and that instant starting ability that i have been after for a long while.

see the video here for a walk through and a listen to the engine running:




overall. the car runs better than it did before. i now have better fuel economy due to the fuel cutting off under de-acceleration (which all fuel injected cars do), and performance has not changed! if anything idle and very low RPM has a lot more torque! meaning that you can do manoeuvring without really having to touch the throttle :D

happy days! the only one job i have to do is extend one of the fuel pipes a bit longer so i can fit the fuel pump where i want it to sit.

i really recommend this mod guys!
 
oh no mr blu.. it handles better than a cinq. does not have that annoying body roll that cinqs seem to have. :p

i really need to get a timing gun. i have one but for some reason when i connect it up it does not seem to make a bright flash. just a really little one.

anyone know why that could be?
 
tbh its been such a long time since i have been in a 'normal' cinq or sei that i can't really remember what thats like.. Betty was so low and stiff there was no roll at all but speedbumps and things had become an issue it was so low lol. I was more meaning how it goes as in engine wise rather than anything else though... no throttle at all while manoeuvring etc is the same as driving a cento, i was of course only messing anyway.

timing gun.. that is a weird one - if you weren't you i would be suggesting making sure the surfaces are clean and making good contact but you know more about electric than me i suspect lol. Tbh i have not used a timing gun in a long long time, its been about a decade since i had a car with a coil and dizzy setup lol - does it work properly on the other car??
 
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