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Panda (Classic) John Dragon Man's 4x4 Sisley

Introduction

Hello!

Well, I have been waiting a long time to do this!

Introducing (Drum roll please!).....

Edit: about half way through the time it took me to get the car on the road it found the name Talon. So everyone Meet:
Talon. My Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley:

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Great Looking car.. As i am sure you all agree!

It has its Good points:

No Horrid noises in any gear and the 4x4 system works and sounds brilliant! Its a Sisley! And it came with some nice extras such as the light grill covers.

and also nice low mileage.
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And it has its bad points... Lots of bad points:

Mid body rust, This is the worst on the drivers side (in the UK) front wing:
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The Doors are Rusty.. Ok, i did expect this as it seems to be a common thing on most Fiats over 10-15 years old:
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And the other Door, Not as bad.. I may be able to save this side!
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"Phantom Electronics" the electronics do what they want to do, when they want to do it. No Switches necessary!

Also the Fuse box now lives here :( That means that a flap has been cut in the pocket :(
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The Exhaust is very broken, in multiple parts. even the down pipe!
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Lastly and by far the worst, Under body rust. Now its not as bad as it could be. The rear sills on both sides have a small 1 - 2 inch hole in them. No biggy.
I have still yet to remove all the plastic wheel arch liners and have a proper look.
Here's a picture from the front drivers side wheel arch, its only a skin so a easy repair:
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A bit of work needs doing to the brakes, pads i think. The fluid needs changing and the drivers side front brake pipe is corroded so i will replace that.

Also the engine needs a good cleaning up, a full on service replacing the water pump, cam belt, tensioner pulley, distributor cap and rotor arm, filters, oil, radiator, coolant and starter motor.

I also need a few things like a locking filler cap, the little clips that hold the air box together, a new boot gas strut and a non damaged back bumper.

Its the car I have always wanted right from when I was a young lad. So you can imagine how I was when I won it on eBay for a grand total of £547. Getting it from Wales To my home town of Derby Cost me £135.

With some love, care and late nights I reckon I can turn it into a cracking motor!

Oh and stay tuned as I will be keeping a Video Log of what I will be doing to the car on Youtube!

This is the video i took just as the car transporter left from delivering it:




See the rest of the videos Here: Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley Restoration Video Logs

See my Youtube Channel >>>Here<<<

Also Click Here for more up to date pictures of this car!

I am so very proud to be the owner of a Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley!

:D:D:D


Edit: this is how Talon looks now:



:eek::cool::cool::cool::yum:

Since then Talon has gained more lights, and now has some blue rust free Seat Marbella doors. I had also converted him to Fuel injection, however the parts i used were old and worn so now it is back on Carburettor.

This thread has its ups and downs but through the years Talon and myself have pulled through.

When you are done reading this thread, be sure to check out the little red scrap yard rescued Seat Marbella thread and also Project Fallout!

Peace all and enjoy the thread, videos and pictures!
i used to have a dash cam and i found that sods law meant whenever something happened it was always at the end of the 10min section and mine seemed to have a 5-10sec gap between finishing a file and starting the next, was well annoying. Would like one again though, a better one than i had.
 
scratch another ignition module off the list. Talon has just burned out another.

thankfully i have 3 spare on the car so starter motor power got me to a near fuel station where i swapped it over and was able to get the talon wagon running again.

you know you can do 30mph using the starter motor going through the gears! who needs an engine!
 
John, to me it sounds like there is something else wrong that is causing the modules to burn out. I know they are not known to be the best but I don't think you should be going through that many. My Sisley still looks to have its original.

Agreed, they cause problems but shouldn't keep going. Mine went about 4 years ago and caused huge problems (mainly because the replacement was faulty & resulted in everything else being changed!). Fingers crossed I've had no problems since though & wouldn't expect them to go unless they get old or there's a problem elsewhere.

What make did you put on John? Is it a known brand or something cheap?
 
i am not sure. they are ones i have got off other fiats in the scrap yard.

could anybody do me a favor?
i would like to know what impedance the coil is on your pandas.. only pandas with ignition modules

i am wondering if mine is reading too low, causing the modules to blow. this is talons 3rd one :/
 
John,
Please see Fiat figures for coil resistance and signal pick-up sensor (hall's).

Can you remove potting compound from faulty one to see arethere any "blown" componets or tracks?
 

Attachments

  • 55 IMPIANTO ELETTRICO.pdf.pdf
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There's an earth contact inside the distributor that earths the baseplate to the distributor body using a wiper contact. This can become loose with old age, wear & tear or simple mechanical damage incurred while changing the vacuum unit. As a matter of interest my 4x4 has a 27 year old near 200,000 mile module still in situ !
 
so an update on things..

Talons quest for fuel injection:

In our local scrap yard there is a Uno, it had the hybrid fuel injection system with distributor setup.

i have taken practically everything from off the engine. and also the fuel injection system, wiring loom, and ECU. along with the distributor + ignition module (which is the same as a panda 4x4s), the coil and intake manifold.

it looks simple to put on the car, the ECU gets all of its info from the throttle position sensor, temperature sensors (air and water) idle sensor (which i think is just a switch, but could be an actuator to raise and lower idle speed) and exhaust oxygen / lambda sensor.

there is no crank position sensor as the ECU does not control the spark system at all.

i have no idea if this has AFC (auto fuel cutoff), given the fact the ECU has no idea what speed the engine is running at, my guess is that it does not have it, which is a crying shame.

at least it will make cold starts a simple easy thing.

this system is basically a fully electronic carburettor.

i have the complete system, only think i am lacking is the fuel pump. with this being fuel injection i need one that gives more pressure than the diaphragm lift pump the old carburettor setup has. i am not sure on the full specs of pressure the injector requires but my guess is to aim around the 2 bar mark. i get this figure from other fiats. the punto 75 i know uses 2.5 bar. so maybe i should aim for that.

i will be getting an in line fuel pump for this.. the swirl pot design is all well and good but.. man i just cant be arsed to make one! not that it is hard.. hmm.. and i do have some spare in tank fuel pumps i could use... hmm

well we will see.


i will have to swap the intake manifold over, as the throttle body bolts on by 4x allen 6mm key bolts unlike the carb that uses 2x 10mm hex head bolts.
i will then need to wire in the new loom. thankfully it only needs 3 wires. a main live from the battery(red), an ignition live from the ignition switch (orange), and a dash warning light, which could be wired into a separate indicator light.


though this wont make talon more fuel efficient.. it should make him more easy to start and run when cold.

anyone know much about this setup? i am sure i can very easy figure it all out though.
 
so an update on things..

Talons quest for fuel injection:

In our local scrap yard there is a Uno, it had the hybrid fuel injection system with distributor setup.

i have taken practically everything from off the engine. and also the fuel injection system, wiring loom, and ECU. along with the distributor + ignition module (which is the same as a panda 4x4s), the coil and intake manifold.

it looks simple to put on the car, the ECU gets all of its info from the throttle position sensor, temperature sensors (air and water) idle sensor (which i think is just a switch, but could be an actuator to raise and lower idle speed) and exhaust oxygen / lambda sensor.

there is no crank position sensor as the ECU does not control the spark system at all.

i have no idea if this has AFC (auto fuel cutoff), given the fact the ECU has no idea what speed the engine is running at, my guess is that it does not have it, which is a crying shame.

at least it will make cold starts a simple easy thing.

this system is basically a fully electronic carburettor.

i have the complete system, only think i am lacking is the fuel pump. with this being fuel injection i need one that gives more pressure than the diaphragm lift pump the old carburettor setup has. i am not sure on the full specs of pressure the injector requires but my guess is to aim around the 2 bar mark. i get this figure from other fiats. the punto 75 i know uses 2.5 bar. so maybe i should aim for that.

i will be getting an in line fuel pump for this.. the swirl pot design is all well and good but.. man i just cant be arsed to make one! not that it is hard.. hmm.. and i do have some spare in tank fuel pumps i could use... hmm

well we will see.


i will have to swap the intake manifold over, as the throttle body bolts on by 4x allen 6mm key bolts unlike the carb that uses 2x 10mm hex head bolts.
i will then need to wire in the new loom. thankfully it only needs 3 wires. a main live from the battery(red), an ignition live from the ignition switch (orange), and a dash warning light, which could be wired into a separate indicator light.


though this wont make talon more fuel efficient.. it should make him more easy to start and run when cold.

anyone know much about this setup? i am sure i can very easy figure it all out though.
 
so, Talon has undergone some changes. he no longer has a carburettor but has now a single point injection throttle body.
he has been a bit upset lately and i am not sure why.

so i have swapped the coil, distributor and the ignition module and added the ECU from off the Uno.
i have Fallouts exhaust down pipe with lambda sensor from off a cinqueceto.

now sadly i need to make another swirl pot as the fuel lines are not big enough to handle the flow rate of the fuel pump. i plan to make one out of a air con or large refrigeration dryer. i will drill 2 holes in the side and keep the previous holes on each end as the input and return to tank.

this will be just enough to keep the fuel pump primed and have a little "pot of fuel" that it can flow around and kept constantly topped up with the cars original cam driven pump.

also with all that being made out of copper i can solder all the extra pipes on too. bit more easy than brazing.

i have tested the system using Fallouts swirl pot. with talons engine being cold, and the system primed as soon as i turn the key i have smooth idle and instant drive ability.

no bogging down, no cutting out, no adjusting the choke after a few seconds of starting to keep it running.. just instant start and run.

i may loose a bit of power, the throttle body inlet does seem slightly smaller than the carb but i guess its a necessary evil. it should give me more torque. which is always nice. should also have better fuel economy with it having auto fuel cut off under de-acceleration, which i will put to good good use.


i am also hoping now that talon wont keep blowing ignition modules. with the coil being changed and a different distributor it should run perfectly fine.
i guess time will tell.

its all fun :D
 
so guys, here is a home made swirl pot for use with an external or in line fuel pump. you have to use this as the standard fiat panda fuel lines cant deliver the fuel flow that the high pressure pump needs to run. (i tried it)

this is made out of the dryer found on a split type air conditioning systems commonly found at scrap metal yards. they are made out of copper tubing so can easily be drilled and have extra pipes soldered in place making a fuel tight seal.

these are filled with plastic filters and silica beads to soak moisture from out of the refrigeration gas. the most easy way to get this out of the dryers case is to just simple throw it in a fire and burn all of the innards away. not a problem if you have a solid fuel or waste oil burner ;)


this is what you start off with:


and this is how it looks when its done:
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