Stilo My 1.2 3 door Stilo.

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

richydraper said:

no because thats all the airbox ducting does...

you need the least resistance in the intake system to make it worth your while, so ideally larger ducting to TB and larger TB (if you want to get anal knife edged butterfly and smoothed axle, polished and ported manifold and head, larger intake valves and valve guides ground down.)

think about if you take off your intake ducting off that's ultimate gas flow into your TB, so the closest you can get to that is oversized ducting and a free flowing airfilter

-also- the shorter the intake length the better response you will get so think about a rear mounted cone with CAF and possibly raise the rear of the bonnet up or remove the scuttle panel rubber.

(Short Intake = Better Torque. Long Intake = Better BHP)

Click to expand...

Ok that sums it up perfectly for me, thanks!

I'll have a little look over it tomorrow and think of the best design for it.



As it stands I'm thinking of running it in the normal direction and circlipping the enclosed filter onto the ducting, inline with the battery cover (left of where the cover would be)

Or...I could relocate the battery inside the car where the back seats are (mine are removed ) and use the extra space up front to just directly bolt the enclosed filter onto the throttle body? And just run an extra long flexi pipe from it to the front of the car job done

I could even fit the battery tray and cover back on and house the enclosed air filter inside it! Double insulation from the hot engine bay lol

Who knows what I'm going to do I just like to use my imagination and run ideas past you guys

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Also is it possible to port/polish an intake manifold made of heat resistant plastic like mine?

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

you will probably find that the plastic manifold is already larger than the head ports so there MIGHT be a certain amount of scope for head porting. plastic manifolds are usually pretty smooth anyway in comparison with cast aluminium so probably not worth the time/effort.

with regards to air intake positioning a lot of mid 90's sports cars had the airboxes routed to the wings as the air there is dry and cold one that springs to mind is the Gen 5 and Gen 6 Celica GT4 but its a different kettle of fish as they're turbo lumps. Basically you need the cleanest coldest air supply to benefit. cold air is more dense than warm air which means you can burn more fuel in a charge of cold air than you can in the same sized charge of warm air, thats why foggy winter mornings your car seems awesomely fast, where on a humid summers day its never quite fast enough!

mind you, you do own a 1.2

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

richydraper said:

you will probably find that the plastic manifold is already larger than the head ports so there MIGHT be a certain amount of scope for head porting. plastic manifolds are usually pretty smooth anyway in comparison with cast aluminium so probably not worth the time/effort.

with regards to air intake positioning a lot of mid 90's sports cars had the airboxes routed to the wings as the air there is dry and cold one that springs to mind is the Gen 5 and Gen 6 Celica GT4 but its a different kettle of fish as they're turbo lumps. Basically you need the cleanest coldest air supply to benefit. cold air is more dense than warm air which means you can burn more fuel in a charge of cold air than you can in the same sized charge of warm air, thats why foggy winter mornings your car seems awesomely fast, where on a humid summers day its never quite fast enough!

mind you, you do own a 1.2

Click to expand...

Hmm maybe for a bit of fun I'll remove the intake manifold and have a look?

My middle finger can't fit in the exhaust ports (well it fits the exit but where it seperates into 2 for the seperate valves I can't fit my finger )

Mounting it inside the wing sounds cool, and I know there's a perfect mounting point under there already!

But I do like my idea of fitting it inside the battery cover

Yes it is a 1.2 It is a nippy car for what it is mind you - with the back seats out and a quarter tank it's overtook a localy known t sport yaris in 3rd gear and kept up with it through to 6th - a mighty feat for my wee 1.2 I think

Tbh I prefer throwing it around in corners (no back seats means a lot of fun in the twisty's! Don't know how the larger engined Stilo's would be affected though?)

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Ok so now I've managed to lose my torx set so can't go ahead and remove my front bumper and so on! :bang: No idea where they've went to

So instead I did a bit of investigation into my idea for a custom induction kit routed to go inside the battery tray in place of the battery (with the battery re-routed to the spare wheel well) and a cold air feed brought up from underneath the tray.
You can see from the picture that the diameter of the throttle body fits nicely into the side of the surround and won't interrupt the wires going up to the fusebox.
I've also taken a picture of all the cables that I believe would need to be lengthened to allow them to be fed into the car and up to the spare wheel well.
And a picture of my chewed to feck wheel arch liners and left/right engine bay liners!
All comments and opinions welcome of course - like to know what everyone thinks about it - I would like to do this though as I don't think anyone's done this before??



^White circle shows where the ducting from the throttle body (top left) will enter. The gap in the bottom right of the battery tray is where I'd feed up the cold air feed



^View from underneath shows the gap the cold air feed will go up through. I think I will also fix it against the chassis beam as well and feed near to the front grille.



^These are the + and - feeds that mount onto the battery terminals, and would need to be lengthened so as they reach the battery if it was mounted in the spare wheel well.



^Battery fits ok in the spare wheel well, obviously needs brackets bolted in to keep it sturdy in there!



^My crappy plastic guards!

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Why would you do away with the battery and place it in the boot?

The standard air intake possition is already better than most, just plumb in a forced induction kit and you'll be fine.

A cant understand why you'd want to do away with the spare.

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Why would you do away with the battery and place it in the boot?

The standard air intake possition is already better than most, just plumb in a forced induction kit and you'll be fine.

A cant understand why you'd want to do away with the spare.

Click to expand...

The standard airbox position is directly on top of the valve cover, it gets bloody hot when you're driving it! Though it does have a daft wee intake pipe the connects the airbox to a gap on the top grille - won't make any difference if the airbox is mounted right on top of a source of a lot of heat! Saying that it can't be the most efficient position for it surely??

By moving the airbox away from the engine and also enclosing inside the battery cover and fitting a cold air feed to it it will be a more efficient way of getting air to the intake manifold - as richydraper describes - though 99% of people will be against moving the battery but I don't mind lol

"just plumb in a forced induction kit" - I believe forced induction means a turbo or supercharger? **** that!!!

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Got some dimensions of the original intake pipe:

Outside diameter @ TB - 55mm
Inside diameter @ TB - 50mm
Wall thickness @ TB - 2.5mm

Valve cover to intake pipe vacuum hose dimensions:

Ouside diameter @ intake pipe - 25mm
Inside diameter @ intake pipe - 20mm
Wall thickness - 2.5mm

Outside diameter @ valve cover - 23mm
Inside diameter @ valve cover - 16mm
Wall thickness - 3.5mm

The valve cover to intake pipe also has a thin tube running off it to the intake manifold

Here's the valve cover to intake pipe hose:



Perhaps to keep things simpler (rather than having to get a small t-piece for the bottom to fit a thin tube for the manifold hose), I will use this hose and just attatch another flexible piece onto the end of it and circlip it into place and just run it to the t-piece on the new silicone hose.

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

dont forget the further away your battery is from starter them more problems youll get on the stilos already flakey electronics systems... you'll need thicker cabling to reduce resistance and quite possibly a bigger battery to produce and sustain the required cranking amps on startup... can you not keep the battery where it is and run the air ducting below it?

the space below the battery box is where the airbox is on my 1.6.

with regard to the breather youll need a 'flash back' gauze and you can get unions that screw into the silicone hoses if you need it to run to the manifold.

i think MEP meant a CAF not FI

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

i think moving your battery may well be a little extreme Mark, after all do you really want to not carry a spare? so i have an idea for you, if you want to make a custom intake system thats efficent, good for your engine and cheap then how about this.....

i'm pretty sure the 1.6,1.8,JTD and the 2.4 all share the same standard air box which is hidden ,like richy says under the battery box. so why not buy a second hand airbox off ebay, fit a K&N pannel filter and put it under the battery out of sight, and then connect the air box to the thottle body with a custom silicone hose of your choice, plug the hole up in the top with something ( i cut a rubber bung out of a large slab of rubber i picked up from an auto jumble ) and then bore a hole in the side and push a flex air ram duct into the side and point the other end behind the grill thats below the N/S headlight. that way air is "forced" in by motion of the car and the location under the battery means it stays quite cool. i reckon that could be done for about £70?

moving the battery does'nt seem that simple when you consider all that other stuff that connected to it will have to move with it?

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

I must admit I'm not very good when it comes to auto electrics and haven't done much research into it. It's good that you people know better and can show a better method

In relation relocating the battery I thought it was possible to keep the fusebox in its original position which minimized the amount of re wiring? The cables I had in my hand in the pic were the ones that needed lengthened and re-routed in order for the battery to be moved. But if what richy says is true then it may not be such a viable option, it would look soo cool mind you lol

Thanks for sharing that with me gadge I shall look into that - didn't know that was where the airbox was on them models

Richy what is CAF?? Sorry for sounding stupid lol but my guess is cotton air filter lol
And could you direct me to where I could get the said gauze & unions please?

Thanks again for all the help people!

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Well I found what you were talking about on eBay Gadge and here they are:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stil...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a6e9418d1

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33-2846-K...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43a58f2e0e

Has anyone got an idea of the orientation of the airbox under the battery? I will check the guides section and search elsewhere as well...

My original plan was to actually fit a stilo abarth TB and the K&N Typhoon induction kit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stil...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cc04dcba8

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-N-TYPHO...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ab32e372f

But again on another forum I was told my ambition was a little too extreme It looks like the TB fits mind you, but what difference it makes - if any - I'm not all too sure, and it's a bit expensive to pin my hopes on it! lol

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

MarkThompson4 said:

Well I found what you were talking about on eBay Gadge and here they are:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stilo-Abarth-02-01-05-2-4-20V-Genuine-AIR-FILTER-BOX-/250963302609?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a6e9418d1

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33-2846-K-N-KN-Air-Filter-FIAT-Stilo-Abarth-2-4-01-07-/290540432910?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43a58f2e0e

Has anyone got an idea of the orientation of the airbox under the battery? I will check the guides section and search elsewhere as well...

My original plan was to actually fit a stilo abarth TB and the K&N Typhoon induction kit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stilo-Abarth-02-01-05-2-4-20V-Genuine-THROTTLE-BODY-0205003052-/260924361640?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cc04dcba8

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-N-TYPHOON-BLUE-INDUCTION-KIT-FIAT-STILO-2-4-01-06-NEW-/320833730351?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ab32e372f

But again on another forum I was told my ambition was a little too extreme It looks like the TB fits mind you, but what difference it makes - if any - I'm not all too sure, and it's a bit expensive to pin my hopes on it! lol

Click to expand...

yes thats the airbox, on that photo its lying on its side so the large pipe on the left is the top. i blanked mine off as the old pipe seemed to disarpear behind the bonent and not in direct fresh air so i cut a hole and bought a flexi induction pipe and curved it around to the grill below the N/S headlight

on the TB, i'ld be very suprised if that would actually fit on the 1.2 manifold?? its controled by the ECU aswell so your ECU may well reject it and throw a warning on the dash? maybe a TB from and engine a little closer to it like a 1.4 would fit?

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

MarkThompson4 said:

The standard airbox position is directly on top of the valve cover, it gets bloody hot when you're driving it! Though it does have a daft wee intake pipe the connects the airbox to a gap on the top grille - won't make any difference if the airbox is mounted right on top of a source of a lot of heat! Saying that it can't be the most efficient position for it surely??

By moving the airbox away from the engine and also enclosing inside the battery cover and fitting a cold air feed to it it will be a more efficient way of getting air to the intake manifold - as richydraper describes - though 99% of people will be against moving the battery but I don't mind lol

"just plumb in a forced induction kit" - I believe forced induction means a turbo or supercharger? **** that!!!

Click to expand...

No, forced induction kit is something like a BMC CDA with air forced into it though the intake being mounted at the front of the car somewhere, I've been told that's referred to as forced induction anyway.

Don't bother with a BMC as they're stupidly expensive but similar will fit inline between the engine and battery tray with plenty of spare room (I've an LPG ECU fitted in between that also!) and heat soak shouldn't be too bad

Far easier and cheaper than a battery reposition.

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

gadgemyster said:

yes thats the airbox, on that photo its lying on its side so the large pipe on the left is the top. i blanked mine off as the old pipe seemed to disarpear behind the bonent and not in direct fresh air so i cut a hole and bought a flexi induction pipe and curved it around to the grill below the N/S headlight

Click to expand...

Yeah doesn't seem all that good a design really, I mean the inlet is right below the oulet to the TB (or vice versa?) so wouldn't the suction from the engine suck air from the inlet straight through to the outlet, not utilising the full area of the filter? If they were at opposite sides as you done then the full area of the filter would be used? Just what I thought would happen with the way they designed that - but they did anyway so I must be wrong

gadgemyster said:

on the TB, i'ld be very suprised if that would actually fit on the 1.2 manifold?? its controled by the ECU aswell so your ECU may well reject it and throw a warning on the dash? maybe a TB from and engine a little closer to it like a 1.4 would fit?

Click to expand...

I'm not all that sure I'll be honest - if you look at the 1.2 TB compared to the 2.4 TB it looks as if the mounting holes are similar space apart - the 1.2 bore fits within the holes whereas the 2.4 by comparison is bulging from the sides lol that's what leads me to believe the mounting holes are the same dimension but obviously on the 2.4 they compensated by increasing the size of the chambers in the intake manifold?? Just another suggestion to put out there

1.2 TB bore fits within the confines of the bolt holes...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stilo-1-2-16v-Throttle-Body-/280799447670?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4160f38a76

2.4 TB bore near enough matches the confines in this picture...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stilo-Abarth-02-01-05-2-4-20V-Genuine-THROTTLE-BODY-0205003052-/260924361640?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cc04dcba8

What do yous think after looking at the two??

I think they as good as identical apart from the obvious bore differences - the butterfly motor housing and wiring plug all look the same! I makes it very tempting...

I am looking at fitting a1.4 TB at some stage, just not at the moment. If I have a spare 50 quid then I won't hesitate to give a 2.4 TB trial fitting a go!

No, forced induction kit is something like a BMC CDA with air forced into it though the intake being mounted at the front of the car somewhere, I've been told that's referred to as forced induction anyway.

Click to expand...

Ah ok I see what you mean I would call that a ram air lol I suppose it is like forced induction but obviously not to the scale of turbo/supercharging

Don't bother with a BMC as they're stupidly expensive but similar will fit inline between the engine and battery tray with plenty of spare room (I've an LPG ECU fitted in between that also!) and heat soak shouldn't be too bad

Click to expand...

I'm completely with you on that statement That's why I planned on taking the custom induction system route (no point wasting so much money on a small engine)
and Gadge's method is much better in the long run than my idea

Found this through google:

http://www.passionauto.co.uk/produc...e-car-air-filterintake-kit-universal-fit.html

Very similar to the BMC system but - for the love of God - will be throwing that ridiculous "turbo" fan into the furnous! :yuck:

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Yeah something like that, although the fan is laughable

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Ok well I've came across an old thread where my exact question was asked - with a definate answer.

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/245290-stilo-20v-throttlebody-questions.html

It makes sense what it says about the whole design of the TB being based on the intake systems design and injector positions and so on. I take that fully on board and wouldn't like to mess that up by fitting a huge TB (though from the previous comparison it only looks like a 10 - 15mm difference).
Suppose it's like a well thought out formula - and the TB is one of the values and when you go changing that value your whole formula will be out!

What also interests me is where it goes on to describe the TB design a bit more with regards to diameter and the effects that actually changing this has, "A larger bore leads to lower flow resistance, but obeying the laws of diminishing returns.". What would these "diminishing returns" be? Less BHP and torque? I would have thought a larger TB would allow more air in at high RPM thus moving the power band up higher in the rev range but with the adverse effect of having less control over the extra incoming air in a lower rev band?

It also says, "A smaller bore leads to better throttle control and response (never underestimate) and improved fuel mixing.". So obviously with my 1.2 I've already got a comparably small TB, but when I'm planning on doing improvements such as a free flowing exhaust manifold and an upgraded induction system - where the breathing of the intake and the exhaust have hopefuly improved afterwards - should fitting an even smaller TB improve things further by - like this person quoted - "improving throttle control and response...and improved fuel mixing". When I say a smaller TB I'm talking a few mm - if there is one smaller than mine made for fiat that would work on mine?

Would this also have the effect of moving the torque/power band into a lower rev range based on the fact that a smaller TB won't allow as much air through at high RPM? If so then this sort of setup might well be ideal for the practical everyday town/city sort of driver like me who doesn't rev the tits off their engine all the time! I prefer a car that feels urgent rather than outright powerful lol (never going to get that in a 1.2 anyway lol)

Once again your feedback is much appreciated, I do ramble on a bit I know but I like to lay my thoughts out in full so as I can get a full, unbiased opinion on the topics that I bring up That's whats this forum's best at right?

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Although I don't understand completely what you mean by the last post,...
Have you ever tried breathing through a drinkingstraw? Forget better mixing or throttleresponse. No way you can race a bicycle up a steap hill with your breathing constricted.

just my two cents

gr J

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Thats the best way of explaining it Ive ever heard...

Im not even going to get into the stereotype of the dutch and bicycles but how would you know what a hill is??

Re: My 1.2 3 door Stilo

Point taken
However we do have to cycle against harsh winds and to boot I've suffered from Asthma all my life.

gr J