Seicento Shoebox, 1.2 16v Seicento.

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Looks a real nice project, am surprised about the corrosion though.

My 01(Y) plate Sei is past 125,000 miles and is still very solid underneath. I have just been treating it these past few weeks now the car is ten years old.

Along the sills was a little surface rust which all sanded off easily, apart from this and the centre plate which resides under the spare wheel and some bubbling behind the rear bumper the car was surprisingly rust free.

Has now been treated properly with anti rust primer and Eastwoods Extreme Chassis Black which is a million times more durable / long lasting than the stuff you pick up in Halfords like Waxoyl - would definately recommend.

My car has always been kept in a large, warm garage and the condition should be (and seems) far better not worse than if the car had been left out in the open.

Good luck with the project from here on.

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Moved on a lot since I last saw it good luck looking forward to seeing you about sometime

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Right update time.
Due to poor weather and myself and Todger being busy at work we've not been able to get as far as we'd have like by now.


The rear end all stripped down as yovue seen before.


Chalky watching on whilst shoebox has its rear end all cleaned up.
Washing up as a cheap degreaser, after rear end was wire brushed and give a coat of waxoyl. Tbh the rust wasnt actually that bad, could of been alot worse, could of been alot better.

Spray nozzle for the Waxoyl has lost a spring so queue me pressing the handle down and a large spurt of if it all over Todgers drive way (sorry again mate)

Rear beam was then stripped down, wirebrushed and sanded back to some shiny stuff, with the grinder being taken to some bad patches of rust.
Big thanks to Whitz for coming over and helping though.


Removed the rear bushes, all but one decided to play along. Im sure you can guess which one didnt want to.
We didnt have a puller either, nothing a bit of ingenuity using some large deep sockets and a vice couldnt sort though.


Bit of garden DIY primer.


Umm hammerite red. Leave to dry over night but due to crappy weather took nearly 2 days.


Get it all back together, those Strongflex bushes really didnt want to get in, even with plenty of lube (matron), nothing a bit of 'gentle' persuasion couldnt sort though.






Got some new brakes hoses made up at a local place, mix with some stainless goodridge braided lines as well.

Started to plumb in the new brake lines, petrol tank off. Not looking in great condition and is slowly corroding around the seams. Going to take it to Fiat and get it changed. I know its not in the age range for a recall but going to try my luck anway.

Handbrake cable all set up by Todger after i bent the adjuster trying to undo the nuts, so good to have a working handbrake cable for once.

Rear end is back on the deck, which meant front end up in the air.
Full yellow strongflex bushes on the front, along with new wishbones. Again getting the OEM bushes off without a puller was a bit of pita...
Fraid i dont have any pictures of this though at the moment. Front end is all back together and resting on axel stands so the real fun could begin.
Front suspension is off and going away to get some custom coilys made.

Due to cold weather and getting darker early is causing an issue though, especially as i blew the bulb on the 500W lamp.

Started stripping down the front end, snapped a few bolts that hold the front bumper on in the process but got some replacements ordered.


Everything non-essential has been taken off the engine and its just waiting to be dropped out while the 1242 gets all its service items on and a new lick of paint.
(no pictures of that till its in the car )

Expansion needs a good clean as it has a nice film of limescale in it.
Water hoses all off and going to be flushed through with a hosepipe and some cleaning soloution, while new jubilee clips will be added to every join.
Brand new rad too.


Cold weather clothing and gloves are a good thing to have.

So not much left other than prepping the new engine to go in and get the old one out.

Next update should be the finished thing.

Pirus

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

The bulbs in the halogens are always going -- Asda do them for about a quid a pop. Nice progress. You look bloody cold!

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Time for an update. Plus put some pictures up i've taken. His engine still isn't out but i'm waiting for parts still to move on.







I had to straighten this bad boy thanks to pirus and his 'un-doing' :bang:.



I would shield your eyes aswell. I spent the last part of and hour polishing these bolts and caps to try and compete with the brightness of his color choice. Didn't work . But it does look better .







Thanks

X

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

eeek

did the hulk take a sh!t in your garage?

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

I'm almost sure he did. Still waiting for pirus to give his approval . I'm not spraying it again if he doesn't like it hehe .

Thanks

X

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

i like it, should look good in the car anyway even if it not what i would have done

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

craigb244 said:

did the hulk take a sh!t in your garage?

Click to expand...

haha, no wonder he gets so angry if he has to pass 80kg Fiat Engines.

blu73 said:

i like it, should look good in the car anyway even if it not what i would have done

Click to expand...

Yeh i just wanted something that would be different it's meant to be a fun car.
Shoebox is never meant to be taken too seriously and with this colour might coax people over to have a look at my car at shows.

Todger182 said:

Still waiting for pirus to give his approval . I'm not spraying it again if he doesn't like it hehe .

Click to expand...

Not to sure on the colour now though, take it all off and go for caribbean orange....
Nah looks good mate.

Pirus

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Tempted to refit all the radiator and vac lines with Samco hoses. Yeh you guessed it, in Samco's bright green colour as well.
Other than just looking pretty, I'm just thinking that the original pipes are coming up to 10 years old and a replacement set might as well be made. I know some of the cinqs out there are now over 20 years old and are still probably running the original hoses and are probably fine. Yet as I'm doing so much work on the car at the minute I thought I might as well replace them.
I know I'll have to buy all the hoses from demon tweaks in individual pieces and make my own kit. Just need to measure up all the current pipe bores and lengths. I think I'll make the majority out of 'xtraflex' for the larger hoses.
The cost doesn't bother me, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this?

Pirus

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

you can buy those fiat hoses from fiat brand new if u want

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

I wouldn't buy all green if i were you, it'll be far to much. Also i would say i reckon green will look wrong as it will never match the green of the engine. If it were me i'd be looking at either black or red.

I thnk i would go for either black vac hoses with the larger hoses (coolant etc.) red or vice versa. black hoses and red vac lines. Any other colours would probably clash badly (IMO)

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

We began by stripping the engine and removing anything that wasn't bolted or attached to it. This was to make it easier to remove from the car (well that was the theory anyway).
As didnt have access to a hoist we decided to drop the car to the floor, unbolt the engine and then jack the car back up and slide the engine out. We only had one trolley jack, a bottle jack and two fiat standard issue scissor jacks. Plus trying to do it in the dark with limited lighting.
Needless to say it wasn't that easy to do either; one of the scissor jacks collapsed as well.









Even with my car slammed to the floor resting on blocks of wood, it still isnt as low as Chalky is. Crazy.

We managed jack the car back up after alot of swearing, especially after we couldnt fit the jack back under one side due to the scissor jack failing.



Looking rather forlorn with nothing in the bay.

Ignore the damage to the slam panel, if you read my first post this is where someone ran into me in the cold weather a few years ago and it was bent.

With the engine out it meant I could give the engine bay a quick wipe over and get rid of 10 years worth of grime and crap.


Also needed to refit the ARB to the wishbones but Fiat have now discontinued making half of these brackets in the UK now. Deatils in this thread - Clicky
Managed to get some sent over from Poland for a reasonable price.






Strongflex sport bushes all round.
There is little to no give in these bushes either, even when we had to cut off a small edge from one of the engine mounts I couldnt even flex it with my fingers.



All painted up, brand new service items as well.
Didnt want to take any chances and for peace of mind.


Had an issue with the alternator and the crank pulley. The 16v engine was originally an aircon model, so had a different pulley to accomodate the compressor.
First we thought it would be easy just to use a pulley from a standard 16v engine. The trigger wheel for the crank sensor is on the other side though. So we had to go to a few scrapyards and try and get hold of a correct fitting pulley.
We found one off a mk1 16v engine. Alternator was then spaced out by 5mm or so. This was so i didnt encounter any problems that Todger first had when he finished Chalky originally.

Note the engine mount on the alternator has to be filed down by a few mm to prevent any rubbing.






Engine just needing the gearbox to be attached and then slotted into the car.


Gearbox mated up to the engine.
We were going for the same method as removal; slide the engine in the bay, lower the car to the floor, bolt on engine and raise the car again.
This time however i brought along two more trolley jacks and more wood. Handy to use wood for the bottle jack to raise it more to reach the slam pannel for a little more leverage.

We finally got it in and bolted up.
I'm saying no more than that......








With the engine in the exhaust was then wrapped, though this may have been easier to do with the manifold off of the car, fibreglass is quite itchy and the exhaust mani was a good place to apply light leverage when getting the engine in. The wrap was soaked in water to prevent fibres going everywhere and being inhaled.



You can also see the oil pressure sender which had a custom adapter made at a local hose and fittings shop.


Mocal oil cooler with thermostatic sandwhich plate. Note universal sandwhich plates will not fit these engines due to the shape of the block.
Braided hosing with aerofit fittings as well. This was chosen as to keep temperatures to a minimum, especially as the pipes are rather close to the manifold.
Only problem was if it would rub on the radiator at all.


No rubbing though it was quite close.


Wiring was all sorted, resoldered and heatshrinked.
Inlet manifold reattached.






First start up.
Todger and Whitz were there to witness it.
It rev'd high due to a missing vac hose from the brake servo.


Bumper reattached after some of the old bolts had to be extracted. I got rather heavy handed when removing some....


Back on the deck with everything reattached.

Took it for a quick drive down the road the next day, went down a cul-de-sac getting some weird looks from some people doing some gardening out the front of their house, i didnt realise it was a dead end so had to turn around right in front of the house. I did just have the manifold attached so did sound like a tank, must have looked rather amusing.
Booked it in at the exhaust place and drove it though the town centre at 9am, just off the bottom of the manifold. Sure i annoyed quite a few commuters aswell. Popped the bonnet at the exhaust place and they came round to have a look, they thought it looked pretty but wondered where the battery was.
Grabbed it from the exhaust place the next day, they did just about what i wanted..... Only trouble was they had welded a boss for the second lamba sensor before the cat, not after it. Didnt notice this until i was back at Todgers though.
Went for a drive round to Todgers and noticed the car was dripping oil from the cooler. Just needed to nip up some of the fittings that had probably been shaken loose after not being FT in the first place. The guy at the exhaust place said it even scared him when he got in the car and started it up, said he wondered why everthing was shaking. Solid engine mounts
Should only take a few minutes to tighten them youd of thought, braided hosing has no give or flex though either and it was a pita basically.
Once that was sorted went for a drive with Todger and he didnt think it was running quite right and the management light was on. Knew the lamba would probably throw up a fault for now and probably cause slight over fuelling but it was holding back even more than that. Coilpack wasnt firing on number 2. Round to the local factors who had one in stock.
Engine light went off and all was running well, went and put some fuel in. The petrol station is on a duel carriageway though, hit the loud pedal away as we left. Corsa behind didnt know what hit them. Well up until about 50 then it came into limp mode.
Would come out of limp mode but management light would stay on unless i put my foot down over 50mph, then back into limp mode.

Took it to a local mechanic to get the codes read and cancelled.
PO300 - Generic Ignition Failure x2. Assumed to be the dead coilpack so shouldnt come back.
PO141 - O2 Sensor after cat. Knew this would come up anyway, going to contact exhaust place and get them to put a new boss in for me.
PO340 - Camshaft sensor. Spoken to Todger about this one already, should be alright.

While i was there i also put it up on the lift to have a look under it:









The exhaust system is a full 2" system with 2 cherrybomb's. Yeh you read that right.
200 cell sports cat, they said if i want an optional decat section making up they'll do it free of charge, with a 3" Tail pipe.
Quite loud to say the least.
Before anyone says anything about the exhaust, note: this is not an everyday car, it was always designed to be just a bit of fun on the country roads or thrown round a track.

Also the alt belt had been squeaking whilst driving so had a look.


You can just make out that the belt had been rubbing ever so slightly on the side of the crank pulley.
Did around 40 miles and the squeaking gradually faded and has stopped. It's out by about 1mm but hasnt caused the belt to even fray really. Keeping an eye on it and also have a spare ready.

After leaving the garage and going for a drive it kept flicking into limp mode if i put my foot down over about 45/50. Cruising it went off completley.
After a bit of 'spirited driving' the light has come back on and i will go and get the codes read during this week. Hopefully post cat lamba again.

Some of you may recognise them....




Getting the tracking sorted at a local tyre place, was only out slightly.
Retorqued the wheels while i was there (i know the manager and he lets me do most stuff myself when its not busy) near side rear was rather loose and took nearly 4/5 full turns before it even started to get that tight.
Rechecked them several times since and havent come loose. Get that prooves the point of checking them fifty miles after fitting and torquing.

Been for some country driving in the sunny weather we had yesterday and even in the rain today. Wanted to see how grip was witht the new rubber fitted and body roll etc now the strongflex is fitted.
Car pulls great in first and second, can really feel the torque difference and really pull at 4.5k onwards.
After shifiting into third though it puts it into limp mode and you can just feel theres no power there, plenty of nosie though, unless i'm just cruising.
Noticed this today when coming out of a village and wanted to overtake a MK1 P60 with 3 people in it. Plenty of power in second, just pulled out to overtake but knew i would have to shift into third.
The punto must have put his foot down, as when i shifted into third limp mode flashed up and i lost alot of torque. Could of carried on as i was still quicker but a car had just come round the corner in the distance. I'd rather not of risked it either.
With that i wasnt that much quicker than the punto.
Then again life's a rally not a race, i just wanted to make progress.

Second lamba i think is stil the most likely cause of throwing it into limp mode. Tried disconnecting the rear lamba and even swapped one and two round. Still throws it up.
Never mind, they're just teething problems and can be sorted, for now the car runs and im happy with it.


How it looks currently.
It's really dirty.


The to-do list isnt that bad at the minute.
Needs a good wash and clean. Going to give it a full detail when the weather gets a bit better.
New silicone hosing for induction and brake servo should be here within the next week or so.
Mounting the gauges in the heater vents and route the wiring.
Re-route the wiring for the horn to remount my air horns where the battery tray is.
Affix the battery tray in the boot properly (currently surrounded by bubble wrap with multiple bungee cords and cables ties holding it in place)


Started to make progress on this, currently have a large hole in the middle of my dash as a result though.

Just need to get the codes read again and the lamba boss moved. Easy peasy.
Then off to a local RR to see what figures it now produces, even with the stock ECU.

Could this thread now be renamed Shoebox, 1.2 16v Seicento, thanks.



Pirus

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Leave the post lambda connected but wrap up the sensor in tin foil and secure it so no gasses get to it, then cable tie it out the way.

Looking good though...just need to get the EM side of things sorted.

An uncoded early 1.2 16v should be easy and cheap to fit.

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

looking good mate, nice to see a car nicely detailed underneath as well

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

kritip said:

Leave the post lambda connected but wrap up the sensor in tin foil and secure it so no gasses get to it, then cable tie it out the way.

Click to expand...

Cable tie it out of the way and use a blanking plug on the second lamba?
If thats the case, could i not just disconnect it completley and put a blanking plug in for now?

kritip said:

Looking good though...just need to get the EM side of things sorted.
An uncoded early 1.2 16v should be easy and cheap to fit.

Click to expand...

Still thinking about running MS2 and building it myself. Not sure on microsquirt just yet. Alot of reading and stuff to get my head round though. Will probably try and pop round to ask you some questions at some point.

blu73 said:

looking good mate, nice to see a car nicely detailed underneath as well

Click to expand...

Thanks, just the fuel tank that needs sorting now. Got a new(ish) genuine tank that needs a lick of paint and will be replaced soon.


Just gonna ring the exhaust place and see if they'll move the lamba this weekend for me. Busy at work in the week so only really drive it at the weekends at the minute anyway so its no real bother.

Pirus

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Nice work on the car

No matter what anyone says the mpi ECU's are not adaptive for different engines to say the least. Mine ran little better until it was mapped and even then wasn't as strong as the correct ECU for the engine.

I fitted an 18FD to mine, cheap to come by and easy to fit! Also mappable if necessary.

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

So are you running the orginial ecu that is on the seicento ?

am loving the colour scheme under the bonnet .

Thanks
Ming

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Pirus said:

Cable tie it out of the way and use a blanking plug on the second lamba?
If thats the case, could i not just disconnect it completley and put a blanking plug in for now?

Click to expand...

Nope, there needs to be a load on two of the pins (the heater) that can be simulated by a resistor, but you need to output a voltage on another pin as well. Doing as I say is an easier temp fix

Still thinking about running MS2 and building it myself. Not sure on microsquirt just yet. Alot of reading and stuff to get my head round though. Will probably try and pop round to ask you some questions at some point.

Click to expand...

no worries

Re: The Shoebox. Then, Now & the Future

Mate, that looks fantastic. I definitely want to see it on our stand at Stanford Hall in June!