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Panda (Classic) Mk1 4x4 Panda (Original)

Introduction

Here is Qing Qing, a rescued panda that came close to death
I completed the majority in less than a year and here she is now:

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Before she was a bit worse!

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It's a shame, I do have pictures of the old ones but not up close unfortunately. And one side was too badly faded to see colours while the other side was partly missing due to rust... They were probably the same as the ones fitted on the mk2's though. I think this was only fitted at the very end of the mk1 era as my other mk1 4x4 has the red 4x4 decals (like goodgirls).
 
It's a shame, I do have pictures of the old ones but not up close unfortunately. And one side was too badly faded to see colours while the other side was partly missing due to rust... They were probably the same as the ones fitted on the mk2's though. I think this was only fitted at the very end of the mk1 era as my other mk1 4x4 has the red 4x4 decals (like goodgirls).

Is this any good?



Allen Fletcher supplied these for me a couple of years ago when I needed them for my white 4x4.
 
Is this any good?



Allen Fletcher supplied these for me a couple of years ago when I needed them for my white 4x4.

Nice one yeah thats the one, thanks Vern. Picture saved for future reference :D No doubt a second restoration will be required for her in the future which will be more a strip down to bare shell / full patch up and respray than a rescue from death restoration she got from me 5 years ago. :eek:

That's a long way down the line though, she is functional and safe for the time being and making a fantastic daily driver. I can keep my eyes peeled for some but I am more keen to get the red slanted 4x4 decals / stripes that Chichi needs for the restoration. They are much easier to copy though being all one colour.

Cheers!
Si
 
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Well I have spent another weekend trying to work out what is wrong with QinQing and still no luck. Reasonably sure it is the carburettor still but getting more and more confused about the cause.

Does anyone have any information on the Weber DATR (twin 32 venturi)? Only thing left to check is the jetting correct and maybe replace all jets with fresh new ones in case I have some how damaged the old ones.

I have replaced the butterflies and given it a full service kit (seals, pumps etc) cleaned thoroughly twice with carb cleaner and even used the vacuum cleaner on it to suck any dirt out! Float height set as per spec in y10turbo literature I have. But still she hesitates on throttle, idles like she's a full blown race engine (lumpy and hunting) and yet goes absolutely fine under full throttle (not race car quick though...just panda quick!).

If I can rule out carburettor then I'll move onto other things but I have checked timing is ok, points gap is ok (new condensor and points set), fuel pump working fine, all filters new. There is one nasty possibility that the dizzy has failed (maybe the advance is broken - it's the mechanical centrifugal mass type). I have been meaning to re-check the compression in the cylinders but I am doubtful that is the problem as the compression was fine after doing the head gasket which is when this all started. Just fitted a new HG and bolts etc.

I am going to stop rambling on now anyway. I have brain dumped most of my theories so welcome any further thoughts!
Si
 
Looks like you've got it all Si, only other thing would be the vacuum advance as you said, or maybe even (gulp) an air gap in the inlet manifold gasket. It's defo a weird one though as you'd think all you have done would sort it! Hope you get it fixed though man coz I love that car!!!
 
Looks like you've got it all Si, only other thing would be the vacuum advance as you said, or maybe even (gulp) an air gap in the inlet manifold gasket. It's defo a weird one though as you'd think all you have done would sort it! Hope you get it fixed though man coz I love that car!!!

Hmm I might re-check how tight the manifold nuts are. But pretty sure it isn't that. No vacuum advance though on this car though. Carb and ignition have no connection :D (it's not meant to either :D)

But I hope it isn't manifold leak cos I've just bought a refurbed carb from italy for an amount I will not share! This is the problem with using a classic car as a daily driver...I am sort of trapped in my house!! Oh well plenty of DIY to do round the house and more to do outside the house when this storm has finished pulling bits off it!
 
Im sorry, I was supposed to get back to you as regards this,

Is there anything I can tell you using mine as a reference as it seems to be running quite well now?

No probs, I know you've got a fair on at the moment which is why I haven't been pushing. If you can check what jets you have that would be ace. So I can rule out incorrect jetting at least!

I don't know what's your experience for carbs though so sorry if I am going over obvious stuff :eek:

This is what it looks like from the top (perfect picture I found online :slayer:)...

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The jets are the 4 brass screws in the centre of the carb (parts 3, 5, 7 & 8 in the diagram) and they should unscrew easily but be careful not to slip with the screw driver to avoid any metal shavings falling into the jets and blocking them. take one out at a time as well to make sure they don't get mixed round.

It is the 2 centre ones I am most interested in (5 & 7 in diagram above) as these are the main jets which I think could be wrong on mine. They are a little tricky to get out though. You can get them out with a bit of wire but this is a bit dangerous as you don't want to scratch the centre hole...tweezers are the best and safest way.

There are 3 parts to those 2 jets but they are stamped with a number so just a case of reading them off then putting back into the carb.

top bit (air corrector jet) is just the bit with the centre hole and thread:
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Then there is the emulsion tube which is the long bit:
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And finally the main jet which has the number stamped along the OD:
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Thank you so much for your help, I am going round in circles at the moment :eek:

Any questions concerns etc though let me know and I can help. I don't want to upset your carb as well.

Si
 
Its on my list to check for you tomorrow :)

I have to admit, I like injection much more than carbs, you know where you are with injection. quantifiable variables, ignition timing maps, injection timing, flow rates, its all easy.

Carbs, them be a black art to me! and I have had to rebuild far to many inline 4 motorbike carbs to be a novice at them.
 
Its on my list to check for you tomorrow :)

I have to admit, I like injection much more than carbs, you know where you are with injection. quantifiable variables, ignition timing maps, injection timing, flow rates, its all easy.

Carbs, them be a black art to me! and I have had to rebuild far to many inline 4 motorbike carbs to be a novice at them.

Kewl! Thank you so much for this, owe you one! Glad you've had experience with carbs as well, just wasn't sure so I wacked a tonne of info down to be safe.

It might be sad, but I am actually quite excited to find out! :eek:

Si
 
Well it's not good news for the QingQing, she is still fairly poorly and it is looking more and more like something terminal in the engine. She broke down the other day with horrendous backfiring. Getting fairly depressed now...

So story so far:

- Head gasket went in the summer.
- Head gasket replaced - poor running afterwards (rough idle, stalling, strange carburettor behaviour, hesitant throttle and what seemed to be occasionally firing out the intake side!)
- New carburettor was fitted and this improved the idle and pickup a bit
- Engine still running rough with slightly erratic revs
- Fitted a spare dizzy I had (which I know is a good one as it came off Chichi) and she ran a bit better.
- After a trip to Essex and back, she started to stall at idle and backfiring slowly developed. Got home but eventually it broke down on the way to work a following day.
- Checked compression and this was fine
- Checked valve clearances and some of these had tightened up by a little bit so re-set to 0,15 and 0,2 (inlet and exhaust respectively)
- Engine ran better then but still not perfect so fitted electronic ignition unit and it ran beautifully. Smooth steady revs.
- Drove it down to somerset and back...all seemed ok but took it very easy. Then a following day drove it a short trip and started to backfire again and also stall at idle.
- Also noticed an oil leak develop - from somewhere around oil filter / dip stick. I think this is just an annoying co-incidence but never know.
- I've re-checked valve clearances today and they are still fine so it's not burning out the valves like I had thought at first.
- Doesn't appear to be much slack in the timing chain but without inspecting it by removing timing chain cover etc (a tricky / impossible job in the car) I won't be sure.

I am now stuck in a situation which feels terminal... All I can think I can do now is take the head off and check for something like cracks or slight leak on the head gasket perhaps. But this engine shouldn't need a full re-build at 50k...they are solid engines usually only let down by their Dizzy or Carb!

Has by any chance anyone had a similar story? In particular the missfire issue and if so what caused it? I am really out of ideas now...and more importantly out of parts!! :cry:

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Cheers,
Si
 
Had much the same issues with a 850Sport running a 30DIC and mech advance dizzy following a gasket failure. It suffered from damaged valve seats - somehow the water / steam ingress from the gasket had formed condensation on the bore or piston crown which then corroded the valve seat. Reground the valves and all was well. However another failed gasket cannot be ruled out - Citroen's ohv four in the CX / DS used to eat them a pair at a time unless they were genuine!
 
Had much the same issues with a 850Sport running a 30DIC and mech advance dizzy following a gasket failure. It suffered from damaged valve seats - somehow the water / steam ingress from the gasket had formed condensation on the bore or piston crown which then corroded the valve seat. Reground the valves and all was well. However another failed gasket cannot be ruled out - Citroen's ohv four in the CX / DS used to eat them a pair at a time unless they were genuine!

Yikes, hope it isn't damaged seats...but it does fit the symptoms. Either way head has to come off. I have a spare head I can fit so I guess that wouldn't be the end of the world. I will get it skimmed and ready as soon as I find somewhere local to do that for me.

Thanks for the info, it is a definite possibility as I had this current head re-con'd by a place which later I sort of fell out with after they screwed me on some rolling road tuning work. I am not sure of their quality anymore! This was done back in 2009 though but I guess it could have taken till now for it to develop into a more serious issue. Only done 10K miles since then :eek:
 
If you don't mind travelling to Alcester, the garage I use for major jobs subcontracts all their head work to a guy, there, who comes very well recommended. (y)

He did the work on my Punto, back in July -- and she's run better than ever for the last 4,500 miles. :)

PM me, and I'll get his details for you (but give me a day or two: as I am up to my eyeballs in stuff; and not standing on my head...). :cool:
 
If you don't mind travelling to Alcester, the garage I use for major jobs subcontracts all their head work to a guy, there, who comes very well recommended. (y)

He did the work on my Punto, back in July -- and she's run better than ever for the last 4,500 miles. :)

PM me, and I'll get his details for you (but give me a day or two: as I am up to my eyeballs in stuff; and not standing on my head...). :cool:

Cool stuff, is always good to go with someone trusted on these things. I will have a look to find something a bit more local first though as unfortunately this car is my only working car at the moment (desperate times!! :eek:) but it is definitely worth having a back-up plan! Alcester isn't too far either. PM ahoy!

Si
 
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