Hello All,

I want to try and change the front exhaust part of my Marea 1.6 SX saloon by myself. I'm a newbie so any help would be appreciated.

I've found the relevant pages from Haynes guide (attached). Is there anything else I need to be aware of (e.g. any special tool needed)?

Many thanks.

PS: After that I'll be looking to try and replace the drop links, track rod ends, and outer CV joints, but I'll post a separate request for help when I get to that point...

exhaust bolts are a pain, they have a tendency to rust more than any others, squirt with WD40 for a few days in a row before trying to undo them. Foresee them shearing off (or being rounded off) and having to be replace them.

Hi. Give all the joint bolts/nuts a good soak in light oil/penetratimg oil
For several days ..the heat cycling will actually help.

Another tip..once you start the job. Give it more lube..and then slacken..if you feel the tesistance building..add more lube..and wind the nut.bolt back in..with more lube.

You can end.up chasing the thread like a tap or die...

But all of this is easier than snapping off an important part...that you'll need to replace to complete the cat. Swap

Tip:
Get the front of the car HIGH -SAFELY AND SECURELY..
for decent access to the joints..and make sure you have lumps of wood etc around to support exhaust parts as you will be wrestling bits around..

Charlie

Now I understand what you guys were on about, talking of "chasing" threads, and "tap and die" stuff!

This is ridiculous. I have now managed to undo all the bolts, apart from the very last set of bolts between me and victory, namely the 5 threaded studs that join the front exhaust/catalytic converter to the manifold. I had not realised from the comments above that that is precisely the most difficult bit of the whole procedure!

So after having looked at those studs for quite some time and tried to gently have them spin, I eventually gave up and did some research online on how to extract them.

I found what are called "roll-type stud extractors" (e.g. 4PC STUD EXTRACTOR 3/8 AND 1/2" DRIVE IN CASE: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools). They arrived today, but they are slightly too big to fit in the sunk space where the studs are, and so are unusable.

I could try buying another type of screw extractor which I just found here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-8-DRIVE...for-6mm-to-13mm-BOLTS-STUDS-NEW-/232298761736

Before I buy it, has anybody had any experience with it?

Another alternative I have read about is to screw their bolts back on, just about, and then weld them onto the studs by filling the hole of the nuts. With the latter thus welded to the studs, you can then unscrew the whole thing together.

Now, I happen to have a very cheap 40W soldering iron (never used) with some soldering powder included. My reasoning is that the welding does not need to be super strong, just strong enough to withstand the relatively low torque needed to unscrew those studs (which I don't believe are seized).

Anybody with welding expertise that could tell me if that power would provide a strong enough weld?

A fourth method would entail drilling a pilot hole into each stud, and then using the screw/stud extractor that drill into the hole.

Finally, I watched a video about the "two nuts method" where you screw two nuts into the same stud, then you tighten them against each other so as to sort of lock them together, then you try unscrewing the bottom one and with any luck it starts unscrewing the whole stud. I might give it a go tomorrow.

Or anybody with alternative ideas?

Also, at the moment I have the driver's side driveshaft out, so that gives a bit more room to get out and replace the front exhaust pipe with the cat.

But if I were to postpone the front exhaust replacement, will I need to remove the driveshaft again, or is it possible to remove and replace it while leaving the driveshaft on? The model I'm working on is the Marea 1.6 SX 2001.

Thanks

the "two nuts method"

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Yes, try that method. You're using one nut to push up against another .. though use a ring spanner, not an open ended spanner, as there's less risk of rounding-off a nut. f you have a small blow-torch you can always first try heating the area around the stud. Don't be afraid to smack the area with a big hammer..

Don't just try and turn a seized nut anti-clockwise. Use gentle pressure - not movement - to put 'tightening' pressure on it .. then gentle 'undoing' pressure ... Keep doing that and increasing the amount of 'undoing' pressure. You're trying to frighten the nut into surrender ..

Way back when I used to restore old Rovers. Like most others, the easiest way of undoing exhaust clamps was just to cut through them with an angle grinder, then fit new clamps.

With the likes of manifold studs, don't be afraid to use penetrating fluid, heat and violence.

lukish said:

I found what are called "roll-type stud extractors" (e.g. 4PC STUD EXTRACTOR 3/8 AND 1/2" DRIVE IN CASE: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools). They arrived today, but they are slightly too big to fit in the sunk space where the studs are, and so are unusable.

I could try buying another type of screw extractor which I just found here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-8-DRIVE...for-6mm-to-13mm-BOLTS-STUDS-NEW-/232298761736

Before I buy it, has anybody had any experience with it?

Another alternative I have read about is to screw their bolts back on, just about, and then weld them onto the studs by filling the hole of the nuts. With the latter thus welded to the studs, you can then unscrew the whole thing together.

Now, I happen to have a very cheap 40W soldering iron (never used) with some soldering powder included. My reasoning is that the welding does not need to be super strong, just strong enough to withstand the relatively low torque needed to unscrew those studs (which I don't believe are seized).

Anybody with welding expertise that could tell me if that power would provide a strong enough weld?

A fourth method would entail drilling a pilot hole into each stud, and then using the screw/stud extractor that drill into the hole.

Finally, I watched a video about the "two nuts method" where you screw two nuts into the same stud, then you tighten them against each other so as to sort of lock them together, then you try unscrewing the bottom one and with any luck it starts unscrewing the whole stud. I might give it a go tomorrow.

Or anybody with alternative ideas?

Click to expand...

the link is general.. no specific item..??

are they like corkscrews..??

IF the nuts are off and you just have studded bar poking out.. can you jack up the sump / similar to separate 1 from the other..??

( are the studs just poking through the flange too far to wriggle stuff free..??)

I found what are called "roll-type stud extractors" (e.g. 4PC STUD EXTRACTOR 3/8 AND 1/2" DRIVE IN CASE: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools). They arrived today, but they are slightly too big to fit in the sunk space where the studs are, and so are unusable.

I could try buying another type of screw extractor which I just found here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-8-DRIVE-...-/232298761736

Click to expand...

The first link to the 4 piece stud extractor .. that's what used to be called an 'easy out' (maybe it still is called that..). To use it in a bolt that has sheared off level with the surrounding metal, you have to drill a pilot hole the length of the easy-out through the centre of the bolt. You then have to use progressively larger drill bits to make the hole in the bolt just slightly smaller than the width of the biggest easy-out you would be able to use.

The snag is, the hole drilled into the bolt must be dead centre otherwise the whole thing usually goes pear-shaped.. The best way of drilling a hole dead centre is by using a bench-mounted pillar drill with the unit to be drilled held in a vice. Of course not many people have a pillar drill and more often than not, the unit to be worked on can't easily be removed from the car..

The easy-out works by cutting and gripping inside the hole as it is turned anti-clockwise. Don't put your faith in an easy-out. The last time I used one it shattered - it just couldn't cope with the pressure of undoing a broken stud.

The second link - the roller type extractor ... you would use that to remove a stud that was standing proud of the surface. Years ago I was removing the cylinder heads from a V8 Rover when one of the bolts snapped as I was undoing it. Fortunately, after lifting that head I found that the bolt had snapped above the level of the block - and I was able to use a stud extractor to remove it.

If it had snapped flush with the engine block I would have drilled - in stages - the broken bolt and tried an easy out.

Think of the exhaust manifold where it connects to the block - if, after removing the manifold you need to remove the studs - you'd first try the 2 nut method. If that didn't work then you'd try a stud extractor. If a stud sheared you'd then try drilling/an easy out.

If that didn't work .. you'd take some time to drill through the broken stud, clean the recess out, fill it with 'liquid metal' (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...Xliquid+metal.TRS0&_nkw=liquid+metal&_sacat=0) and wait until it was almost set then screw a new stud in...

If you're looking to repair something like the downpipe where it comes from the manifold and joins the exhaust system - flange to flange - I wouldn't worry if the studs/bolts/nuts are seized and can't be undone. Put a socket on the bolt head and a socket on the nut - and snap them.

If need be, get your electric drill and drill through any remaining stud or bolt in the flange. Use an ordinary nut and bolt as a replacement.

Whatever problem you have, there's always a solution. The solution may involve penetrating fluid, a hammer, chisel, violence, heat and an electric drill, but it's always successful .. eventually .. honest. If you can think of a way to fix it, it's fixed.

Years ago .. etc ... I would buy an old Rover that had maybe stood for 20 years or more. All bolts were taken of with an angle grinder/chisel/drill. Quickest and most effective way. The exhaust was always corroded and rotten beyond belief ..

Where the exhaust joined the manifold downpipe was always corroded. The studs were permanent rusty 'things' .. drilled through and replaced with bolts. A fix is a fix ..

varesecrazy said:

the link is general.. no specific item..??

Click to expand...

Sorry I gave the wrong link. The tool I bought was basically the one shown in this video
IF the nuts are off and you just have studded bar poking out.. can you jack up the sump / similar to separate 1 from the other..??

( are the studs just poking through the flange too far to wriggle stuff free..??)[/quote]

Sorry I don't get what you're suggesting. Are you saying that all I need to do is yank the front exhaust from below? That will work as long as the hole in the manifold where the exhaust stud go is unthreaded.

If that's the case, the only thing I need to check is whether the side-band retaining the cat (you can just about see it on the bottom right of photo #2) will allow me to pull the cat down for the couple of cm needed to free the studs from the manifold...

Come to think of it, when I jacked up very slightly the exhaust pipe from below, to try and see whether keeping the cat flange pressed against the manifold would help in unscrewing the studs, i actually noticed that the cat flange detached itself from the manifold by almost half a cm!

They are STUDS.. not BOLTS.

SO they are just for location/alignment

See IF you can get enough movement to withdraw the bit you need.

TBH.. I dont recognise the chamber the lambda probe is sat in .. so my advice is only a generalisation..

Have fun.

SORRY - was looking on a phone..

though it was the SUMP in the pics.. NOT the cam carrier..

it appears that the front section of the exhaust should DROP down to let the studs
withdraw from the manifold..

have you released the rubbers under the cars floor..??
with a means of support to stop it crashing to the ground..

...

Click to expand...

You're trying to withdraw the unit off the studs..?

With the nuts removed the unit should just pull down off the studs. Don't be afraid of using a big hammer and a really wide screwdriver /chisel to force it apart. Bad language and cursing often helps.

If all the nuts won't come off - remove those that you can, then use one of them to put onto a stud that has a stuck nut. Tighten the top nut down as far as it will go, then use a ring spanner on the lower nut (extended the ring spanner with a piece of pipe if need be..) and use the '2 nut method'. Chances are, the stud will also undo.

The new unit has studs in? If so .. it doesn't matter about damaging the old studs.

If you've never dealt with seized nuts/bolts/studs before, the best advice I can offer is to use extreme violence/force if all else has failed. Don't be afraid to use a hammer/screwdriver/chisel.

One of the best tools for the home mechanic are impact sockets - those black things you see being used in tyre bays to remove wheel nuts. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...ets.TRS0&_nkw=impact+sockets&_sacat=0&_fsrp=1

The reality is, if something breaks it can be fixed. Deal with one problem at a time.

Not too long ago I had to change some front lower suspension arms on a 1998 4 litre jeep. The suspension arms are 2 ft long girders with a bush at each end ... The bolt that goes through each end of the arm/bush/bodywork is about twice the thickness of your thumb. There's also a very, very large nut.. which is about twice the diameter of an orang-utan's arsehole (if I may be allowed to use such an expression on such a genteel forum..).

The ring spanner on the bolt head was about the size of a cup-cake, and wedged against the floor to prevent it from slipping. On the nut itself I hammered on a huge impact socket to make it 'bite' into the nut .. and true .. eventually as circumstances dictated, I had a 4ft length of scaffolding over the ratchet handle to provide the necessary leverage to get that nut to move..

Had that bolt sheared .. well .. the first problem of undoing it was solved .. and then I would have faced the problem of finding and fitting another big bolt/nut...

Deal with each problem in turn. It's do-able.

If you go to the likes of an independent tyre/exhaust place you'll notice that they tend to cut off all exhaust bolts with an oxy-acetylene torch. Easiest and quickest way. Then they use new bolts/clamps.

When you've done the job - and you will do it, believe me - that's a wealth of hands on experience you've acquired. How long it takes, how many mistakes you make and heck, even how much it costs in bought tools is completely irrelevant. We all do the same. That's life. You will succeed eventually.

glenn2602 said:

4ft length of scaffolding

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That should be in everyone's top box/roll cab. You wouldn't believe the times over the years that scaffolding has been useful.

Update! Thank you so much everybody for the advice and encouragement. I did it!

Well, almost did it. I did manage to pull out the front exhaust. Basically, I didn't have to touch those threaded studs at all.

The final two steps are pretty easy. First, it is key to make sure that the metal band holding the cat mid-way is properly loosened (as suggested in the official service manual which I uploaded to an earlier post). So after undoing the bolt that keeps the band tight, you have to open up the two ends of the band by prying them apart (on the bolt itself which keeps them together).

Once this is done, the last step is simply tugging and wriggling the front exhaust from below. I found that in order to remove it completely I had to further heighten the front of the car...

I can also confirm that the driveshaft does not need to come out for the front exhaust to be removed. There is just about enough space for the cat to go through the existing gap.

BUT as soon as you overcome one problem you are faced with another one. I only noticed now that the replacement front exhaust is slightly different in three ways:

- it is a bit slimmer (which means that the metal band which holds the catalytic converter mid-way is a bit too big for it;

- maybe to compensate its being slimmer, it has two vertical metal ridges, with two holes each, mid way on the cat, where the band would be in the original part;

- two of the five threaded bolts that join the front exhaust to the exhaust manifold are too short, so that I cannot secure them with a bolt on the other end!

I'm attaching some photos to illustrate what I've written above.

At the moment the new front exhaust is only partially re-assembled: meaning that it's hold in place just by the three bolts I can actually screw on the studs (which I haven't even tightened for the moment being).

I guess the proper way of doing things would be to order some studs about 2cm longer, then pull out the front exhaust once again, swap the short studs with the long ones, and reassemble everything.

But I wonder if I can simply apply exhaust putty on the star shaped flange/interface between front exhaust and manifold, and simply make do with tightening the three studs which I can actually tighten? Or would there be the risk of leaking exhaust fumes?

Thanks again everyone

exhaust putty on the star shaped flange

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Exhaust assembly paste is commonly used to connect exhaust flanges together. It sets rock hard within minutes of the engine being started and the exhaust warming up. It provides a gas-tight seal.

If there's any studs/bolts that aren't long enough .. for whatever reason .. change them. There's absolutely no point in spoiling a job for the sake of a few quid. If you're going to fix something, fix it once.

When fitting an exhaust, don't just connect one flange to another and tighten the bolts. Put nuts on finger tight - at each end - and then 'jiggle' the pipe and wait 10 minutes. This allows the pipe(s) to 'settle and hang' correctly.

Don't just fully tighten each nut/bolt in turn. Do it progressively. For example, if your flange had 2 bolts, you would tighten each one in stages alternatively. This allows the 2 mating faces to be drawn together smoothly.

You're almost finished the job ...

Thank you again.

I managed to finish the job - almost correctly!

What I almost didn't do - and would most likely cause big problems - is fit the metal compression gasket/ring which sits on a groove on the star-shaped flange of the new cat.

I didn't know those things existed, and I noticed almost by coincidence by comparing the old cat with the new one...

Anyways, I simply reused the old compression ring as it looked allright.

With regard to the fact that the two longest studs in the new exhaust were not long enough, what I did is I managed to unscrew them from the old cat, and again I re-used them as they were not rusty nor the thread was damaged. Perfect!

Then I made sure the two surfaces were very clean, spotless, and I proceeded to tighten 5 new stainless steel nuts to the 5 studs, going in a star pattern. I did not add any exhaust putty/paste because there was no trace it had been used, and I don't think it was needed (I had not yet read your post!). I also I feared it could make the seal less good if applied incorrectly... We'll see!

Finally I tried to join the front downpipe with the middle pipe flange, and here's where I did it wrong and will need to re-do it as soon as I have some time in the next few days. At the moment the car sounds like it's a tractor...

I think the main problem is that - once again! - I had not noticed that there was a compression ring/gasket on the cat side flange that joins with the middle pipe flange...

So all I did was put a wire-brush head on the drill and clear the rust and old putty on the mid-pipe flange, then applied some exhaust paste on both flanges and screwed them together with the two bolts + nuts. However the seal must be almost non-existent going by the noise it makes...

Now I ordered a new compression ring (the old one looks rusty, so I want to use a new one), as well as the whole mid-pipe for 26 quid. I thought as it looks pretty rusted I might as well change it while I'm at it...

Is there anything else I need to be aware of? For instance, should there be a gap between the two flanges? Because there is a small gap, about 1mm, at the moment, and I don't think that's right. Do Mareas 1.6 take an exhaust flange gasket like the 2.0 seem to (I saw this on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-Marea-2-0i-Exhaust-Gasket-Flange-Gasket-/290579985075).

Once I fix this, I will be able to tell whether the cat is correctly attached to the manifold: at the moment the joint between downpipe (with cat) and the mid-pipe makes such a racket than I can't hear whether there is any noise coming from upstream...

Thanks again.

Is adding a flange gasket (with or without the stock compression ring) going to improve the seal between the cat downpipe and the mid-pipe?

I've noticed that some Marea (and Bravo/a) models use only the compression ring, and some use only the flange gasket for that joint. The flange gasket ePer number is 46459258 (the compression ring is 46753222).

Are they interchangeable? If so, does anybody know what's best please?

Cheers

Is adding a flange gasket

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If by compression ring you mean an exhaust flange olive (photo attached) you could have re-used the old one. They don't actually compress as such - they provide a tapered fit for the flanges. Though having said that, a new one isn't a bad idea.

You can use exhaust paste on the olive. When you tighten the flanges the pipes/flanges will pull down onto the tapered part of the olive. There's nothing wrong with using an olive even if the original system didn't have one.

If the new exhaust is leaking/noisy it's simply because the flanges are off-centre or not mating properly. It's no big deal and easily rectified.

The biggest problem for the home mechanic replacing an exhaust system is the actual crawling under and rolling around beneath the car. If it was up on ramps that you can stand under, it would be a different ball game .. but .. for the home mechanic ...

I changed the rear exhaust section on my 4 litre jeep. I simply used an angle grinder to cut through the old U-clamps, hit the rear box with a hammer until the pipe flanges separated and again used the angle grinder to cut through the rubber 'hangers' (replace all parts with new..).

When it came to fitting the new exhaust rear section ... I honestly thought I'd been supplied with the wrong part. It took ages to get it into place - I was lying underneath the jeep cursing Jeep, the Gods, the exhaust manufacturer...

..and no matter what, the two flanges wouldn't mate together properly which made the exhaust sound like a tractor .. Eventually I shoved an old olive in and used some exhaust paste, which did the trick..