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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #31
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
A cleaning spray will not clean carbon out of the manifold but it does risk debris wrecking a piston and the turbo as lumps of coal go through. DO NOT use the stuff like that.

Oil in the pipes and intercooler will suggest turbo oil seals are leaking.
You make some good points here and if this car is fitted with a DPF thatís blocked or nearly blocked the absolute worst thing to do is feed a ton of carbcleaner and soot into the engine to clog it up further. I know the 1.3 well and the intake has a tendency to get very choked up with soot and crud but it doesnít tend to do a lot of harm and can be easily cleared after a long run with a can of EGR cleaner every so often.

These engines tend to get a lot of blow by and this obviously kicks up oil that gets circulated back into the intake via the PCV. This does lead to a lot of oil build up in the intercooler as a result. It also adds to the crud that builds up on the intake manifold. Either way oil in anywhere in the intakes is not automatically an indication of a turbo problem.

@2668GRIFFIN some older cars did have a DPF itís hit and miss sometimes. 2007 was about the time they where introducing them and I think the doblo may have gotten them as part of a revamp about that time. Where as the qubo/Fiorino was being developed rather than revamped and was an investment of several companies as a result they may have decided initially not to install a DPF.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #32
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
These engines tend to get a lot of blow by and this obviously kicks up oil that gets circulated back into the intake via the PCV. This does lead to a lot of oil build up in the intercooler as a result. It also adds to the crud that builds up on the intake manifold. Either way oil in anywhere in the intakes is not automatically an indication of a turbo problem.
Sorry if I perpetuated a myth about the turbo oil issue.

However, I would not use carb cleaner on an engine you don't know. The engine would probably survive lumps of carbon going through but the turbo absolutely will not.


If it's clogged, the inlet manifold would have to be removed for cleaning and afterwards given a regular dose of carb cleaner to keep it nice.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #33
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Sorry if I perpetuated a myth about the turbo oil issue.

However, I would not use carb cleaner on an engine you don't know. The engine would probably survive lumps of carbon going through but the turbo absolutely will not.


Thankfully all the junk is down stream of the intake side of the turbo and by the time itís been through the cylinders any bigger lumps will be dust, not that, that doesnít still have the potential to cause some turbo damage but the risks are very minimal.

All the crap ending up in the DPF is a different matter.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #34
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

I have rewritten the description of my the problem as i had too many thoughts going through my head last time, i think this is a bit more articulate.
And i am not sure if it has a dpf but the previous owner mentioned his mechanic mentioned about the dpf.

I have a fiat doblo 1.3 mjd
I bought it recently, it has 1 spark plug snapped in the head, apart from that nothing else broken.

The car drives superb no problems at all, untill it gets hot, (well i say until it gets hot, the problem only arises when the raditor fan turns on).

Once the engine is very hot after thrashing it, the fan comes on but it also starts blowing blue smoke on acceleration and the harder you accelerate the more comes out especially between 2.5k-4k revs, it also stinks inside , it chokes you.

Accompanied with this is a whistle which only happens between 3-5k revs on boost and is louder depending on how hard you accelerate, if your stuck on boost it will whistle sll the way through, it also whistles in natural when reved too limiter between 3-4k revs.

It also misfires at limiter if you hold the accelerator down, but does not smoke at max revs only during boost between 3-5k once at 5k it wont blow smoke.

I also had oil light come on after 1000 miles, the oil level has not dropped but seems contaminated by deisel? Very thin and smells weird.

Now this is when the fan is on, the car can be turned off for 30 seconds and turned back on, which turns the fan off and it will run as normal no symptoms no misfire no smoke, runs spot on. But as soon as that fan comes back on it starts again.

The inlet maniflld was caked in carbon and i noticed sleaks of oil on pipe which comes off the turbo air intake.
The car is a 2007 fiat doblo 1.3 mjd has done 60k miles.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #35
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Yes it does have a dpf unfortunately.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #36
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

OK.

Thin smelly sump oil sounds like a failed injector that is dribbling fuel. That will also cause stinky blue smoke.

Turbo whistle could be normal or could be damaged rotor vanes. Blue smoke can also be caused by worn seals in the turbo allowing oil blow-by. An injector fault would accentuate smoke from a worn turbo.

Missfire on the rev limit is likely to be normal as the fuel flow is cut to stop you blowing it up. As said before it will go faster if you change up at lower revs. A worn injector will cause missfires.

You need to check the fuel rail pressures and see what MES has to say about codes and parameters.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #37
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Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
OK.

Thin smelly sump oil sounds like a failed injector that is dribbling fuel. That will also cause stinky blue smoke.

Turbo whistle could be normal or could be damaged rotor vanes. Blue smoke can also be caused by worn seals in the turbo allowing oil blow-by. An injector fault would accentuate smoke from a worn turbo.

Missfire on the rev limit is likely to be normal as the fuel flow is cut to stop you blowing it up. As said before it will go faster if you change up at lower revs. A worn injector will cause missfires.

You need to check the fuel rail pressures and see what MES has to say about codes and parameters.
I will check the fuel rail.

You taking note that all of this only occures when the fan comes on, and stoos when it turns off, when i say stops the car drives normal. If i do thrash it, it comes back on, and it all starts again, i can use the car for a long time without thrashing it and it wont smoke or have any symptoms i have detailed and the fan wont come on, but as soon as i thrash it, and the fan comes on, i guess due too overheating all symptoms start, i can stop rhe fan by turning the car off for merly 30 seconds and the car runs normal again.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #38
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Also i noticed just now that it only seems too activate the fan, when i drive between 3-4k revs with pedal flat too the floor, with a quick gear change from 3rd too 4th and bsck up too 4k revs with foot flat too floor.
If i drive carefully like half acceleration then it dosnt activate the fan even at high revs.
And i can drive for a long time.
Which brings me back too the glow plug, when im opening the thorttle all the way for the entire gear and through high revs3k-4k i assume more fuel goes into the cylinder and causes a larger combustion but if a glow plug isnt heating the large amounts of fuel too the temperature required for combustion then the timing os going too be out and the cylinder isnt going too misfire.
Thats just an assumption.
As i have read alot of posts now saying glow plugs on common rail engines are used at many other times not just for starting.
If the engine is being cooled sufficiently then it wouldnt get hot enough too ignite the high levels of fuel being injected, again im assuming.
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Last edited by Cial515; 3 Weeks Ago at 16:09.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #39
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Weren’t you supposed to have the glow plug issue sorted by now ?

Reading that is making me think you have something going on at the top end, something like a sticking valve.
These engines have hydraulic lifters and if your revving it hard to the red line it could be causing one to over pressure and keep a valve open.

Turn off the car, oil pressure drops, more than when the engine is running and the excess pressure in the lifter reduces and everything seems normal again, or you have a very slightly bent valve from a previous cam chain fail, when you start thrashing these engines which they really are not designed for, the valves get bouncing one could be getting stuck, not closing fully till the piston nudges it.

An open exhaust valve would mean raw diesel being mixed with exhaust gases and nasty noxious smells and smoke out of the exhaust.

There is far more going on here than just a glow plug, it’s 30’c today, there is no need for glow plugs at all in this weather. Disconnect the glow plugs and it will still start without significant effort. If it was minus 5 outside then yes I could agree with you that the glow plugs can be used at other times if the engine temp is low. Wouldn’t really apply if you have your foot mashed into the carpet at Max revs, it should be plenty warm in that situation.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #40
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

The glow plugs aid cold starts nothing more. This time of year they probably don't even switch on.


By the sounds of your driving technique you may well have mechanically over revved the engine, forcing in a lower gear when already running at high revs can blow up the engine or at least cause valve and piston contact.

It's all so pointless because diesels accelerate faster when they are changed up well below max revs. You should try it some time.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #41
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

This seems to describe the symptoms you are having ...

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/e...ulate-filters/

And yes I agree with the last two comments I have driven diesels for years, cars and trucks .Glow plugs... as far as have ever seen are on one circuit with a relay and a timer so all on or all off ...so no timing of any kind ..unlike a spark plug ...they are only used for starting ..nothing to do with DPF regen ...I don't tend to red line anything I drive ...only my bikes when I was a youngster....
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Last edited by isthisagoodidea; 3 Weeks Ago at 20:38.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #42
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Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
The glow plugs aid cold starts nothing more. This time of year they probably don't even switch on.


By the sounds of your driving technique you may well have mechanically over revved the engine, forcing in a lower gear when already running at high revs can blow up the engine or at least cause valve and piston contact.

It's all so pointless because diesels accelerate faster when they are changed up well below max revs. You should try it some time.
I havent forced the car into lower gears at all, i am fast food delivery driver and i have been using multijet engines for 5 years and never ever had a problem, this foblo was bought with this problem so please dont accuse my driving style.
My last multijet ran 40k miles with me hammering it everwhere and it ran like a dream until i spun it out, that was a 10 plate with the same engine.
I do 50k miles a year in diesels all city driving mostly and i have mever burnt a clutch or had any problems with a car that i have been servicing.
But in regards too the glow plug ill take your words for it.

I have a feeling it may be the turbo.

It only happens during boost, so i can imagine its over heating thats why in getting the whistle and blue smoke on boost after it gets too hot.
Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Werenít you supposed to have the glow plug issue sorted by now ?

Reading that is making me think you have something going on at the top end, something like a sticking valve.
These engines have hydraulic lifters and if your revving it hard to the red line it could be causing one to over pressure and keep a valve open.

Turn off the car, oil pressure drops, more than when the engine is running and the excess pressure in the lifter reduces and everything seems normal again, or you have a very slightly bent valve from a previous cam chain fail, when you start thrashing these engines which they really are not designed for, the valves get bouncing one could be getting stuck, not closing fully till the piston nudges it.

An open exhaust valve would mean raw diesel being mixed with exhaust gases and nasty noxious smells and smoke out of the exhaust.

There is far more going on here than just a glow plug, itís 30íc today, there is no need for glow plugs at all in this weather. Disconnect the glow plugs and it will still start without significant effort. If it was minus 5 outside then yes I could agree with you that the glow plugs can be used at other times if the engine temp is low. Wouldnít really apply if you have your foot mashed into the carpet at Max revs, it should be plenty warm in that situation.
Thanks for all the info you seem very educated on these engines and i do appreciate your input alot.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #43
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Reading back the glow plug should have been sorted a few days ago now, has this been done ? have you seen any difference?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #44
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Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Reading back the glow plug should have been sorted a few days ago now, has this been done ? have you seen any difference?
Didnt bother considering everything said here, going too take it for someone too have a proper look over it on monday, and also put another starter motor on.
The starter motor on these is not easy too remove:/
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Re: Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

Photos look pretty normal to me. All the turbo cars I have run have looked similar. I think there's oil getting past the turbo seals. It will look nice once clean, but not for long. If you are going belt and braces have the turbo off and get it checked by a specialist. It does look normal to me though.
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