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Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

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Could use some advise with 1.3 multijet engine

chris3234 said:
It will evaporate
But if you truly hydrolocked the engine it will be scrap more then likely likely with valve damage
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Not normally valve damage , more likely connecting rods. Also very difficult to damage the valves in the 1.3 multijet because of the sacrificial rockers

Also Diesel engine has might higher compression ratio than a petrol engine. Either way if you have damaged the engine through hydrolocking it then yes I’d expect coke serious damage.

Given the age of this car I have to agree with a comment made further up, does it actually have a DPF ? It’s about the time they were introduced on the cars but this is a van and DPFs where not legally required till euro 5 in 2009
 
Yea its got a dpf.
Well its scrap metal now, shame because it was immaculate and i just spent 1k on it last week
 
Is there a possibility though that the carb cleaner causing the hydrolock will evaporate, and the engine may crank over as normal?
Or could it be i blocked the cylinder valves with **** poking a long handle brush all the way tok the end.
 
If you weren't already struggling with a broken glow plug, I would have suggested removing them and cranking the engine over.
Worked for me when I had to rescue a multijet which had got full of water (water dripping onto cracked air filter box for 3 months over a very wet winter)
Made a hell of a mess though... in retrospect, some rags over the engine would have been a good idea.

PS: that engine is still going strong. They are tough little bu@@ers.
 
Got it cranked over, though i have burnt the starter out lol... smells like clutch but definitely starter.
Thank god... i think ill pay for a proper decarb vacuum lol...
 
Cial515 said:
Well i hydrolocked the engine with a can of carb cleaner, had the engine off... well im a **** rather thsn let it evaporate i tried bump starting in reverse 4-5 times and it would not crank at all, wheels just locked up.
And i get a click from starter, u can see the engine move .
Click to expand...


Bumping in reverse gear.. or reverse direction..??
 
I think maybe something like clutch starting, or double clutch start,
Either in forward or reverse,
 
Cial515 said:
I have recently purchased a fiat doblo 1.3.
There is a snapped glow plug in the head.
If it starts dont worry but I strongly recommend you get all glow plugs changed because when another one fails you will struggle to start the engine.(just seen you are doing that :)

until the engine fan comes on, the engine tone changes,
This is probably the additional electric load of the cooling fan

it misfires on rev limiter if you hold the accelerator,
A soft rev limit is normal. But doing that will not do the engine any good at all. Diesels do lot like running at max revs.

Black smoke from exhaust from acceleration only when accelerating, dosnt smoke when reached speed, the smoke stinks like oil or diesel and it chokes u in the car(if im deiving around hard up too 3-4k rev each gear it really stinks, partner says it makes her get a head ache.
(1) You are revving the engine more than necessary. Diesels will accelerate faster if you dont max out the revs. You will have 80% of max torque from about 1800rpm to 3500. Torque falls off rapidly above that speed.

(2) Black smoke means not enough air. If the air filter is clean you need to thoroughly check the inlet system and turbo. It might be clogged with soot. The turbo could be failing.

(3) Do not trust free revving smoke tests. They give a false indication of smoke as very little fuel is needed to spin the engine. If that IS throwing black smoke you really must investigate the intake system.

The rev needle is coming back too idle it hangs at 1200rpm for 2seconds before slowly dropping back too idle.
This is normal. The fuel supply is cut to zero when you lift the pedal. Fuel flow drops back in, just above tickover to avoid it stalling.

The fan comes on some times even if the engine isnt fully heated up, never comes on cold, as soon as it turns off car runs normal again.
I sometimes turn the car off for 30 seconds and then the fan dosnt come back on for a while. Would this be related too the glow plug?

Nothing to do with glow plugs could be a faulty temperature sensor.

I'm worried not going to get this fixed and there is a bigger problem.
DPF will be damaged if engine is smoking. But does you engine actually have one? BAsically the DPF is built to handle normal levels of soot. It will be overloaded if engine is running badly for some reason. The air intake system must be 100% to avoid problems.
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Hydraulic locking a cylinder with carb cleaner will be unlikely to damage the engine at starter motor cranking speeds. But as you say you can burn out the starter motor. A cleaning spray will not clean carbon out of the manifold but it does risk debris wrecking a piston and the turbo as lumps of coal go through. DO NOT use the stuff like that.

Check the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve is operating correctly. They can stick open causing excess black smoke and the inlet manifold gets clogged with soot.

Take off the inlet pipes and look into the inlet manifold. There might be an anti run-on choke valve. If the manifold is dirty, the only practical way to clean it is to take it off the engine. If it is aluminium DO NOT use NaOH as it eats the metal faster than the carbon.

Oil in the pipes and intercooler will suggest turbo oil seals are leaking.
 
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DaveMcT said:
A cleaning spray will not clean carbon out of the manifold but it does risk debris wrecking a piston and the turbo as lumps of coal go through. DO NOT use the stuff like that.

Oil in the pipes and intercooler will suggest turbo oil seals are leaking.
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You make some good points here and if this car is fitted with a DPF that’s blocked or nearly blocked the absolute worst thing to do is feed a ton of carbcleaner and soot into the engine to clog it up further. I know the 1.3 well and the intake has a tendency to get very choked up with soot and crud but it doesn’t tend to do a lot of harm and can be easily cleared after a long run with a can of EGR cleaner every so often.

These engines tend to get a lot of blow by and this obviously kicks up oil that gets circulated back into the intake via the PCV. This does lead to a lot of oil build up in the intercooler as a result. It also adds to the crud that builds up on the intake manifold. Either way oil in anywhere in the intakes is not automatically an indication of a turbo problem.
2668GRIFFIN some older cars did have a DPF it’s hit and miss sometimes. 2007 was about the time they where introducing them and I think the doblo may have gotten them as part of a revamp about that time. Where as the qubo/Fiorino was being developed rather than revamped and was an investment of several companies as a result they may have decided initially not to install a DPF.
 
AndyRKett said:
These engines tend to get a lot of blow by and this obviously kicks up oil that gets circulated back into the intake via the PCV. This does lead to a lot of oil build up in the intercooler as a result. It also adds to the crud that builds up on the intake manifold. Either way oil in anywhere in the intakes is not automatically an indication of a turbo problem.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I perpetuated a myth about the turbo oil issue.

However, I would not use carb cleaner on an engine you don't know. The engine would probably survive lumps of carbon going through but the turbo absolutely will not.


If it's clogged, the inlet manifold would have to be removed for cleaning and afterwards given a regular dose of carb cleaner to keep it nice.
 
DaveMcT said:
Sorry if I perpetuated a myth about the turbo oil issue.

However, I would not use carb cleaner on an engine you don't know. The engine would probably survive lumps of carbon going through but the turbo absolutely will not.
Click to expand...


Thankfully all the junk is down stream of the intake side of the turbo and by the time it’s been through the cylinders any bigger lumps will be dust, not that, that doesn’t still have the potential to cause some turbo damage but the risks are very minimal.

All the crap ending up in the DPF is a different matter.
 
I have rewritten the description of my the problem as i had too many thoughts going through my head last time, i think this is a bit more articulate.
And i am not sure if it has a dpf but the previous owner mentioned his mechanic mentioned about the dpf.

I have a fiat doblo 1.3 mjd
I bought it recently, it has 1 spark plug snapped in the head, apart from that nothing else broken.

The car drives superb no problems at all, untill it gets hot, (well i say until it gets hot, the problem only arises when the raditor fan turns on).

Once the engine is very hot after thrashing it, the fan comes on but it also starts blowing blue smoke on acceleration and the harder you accelerate the more comes out especially between 2.5k-4k revs, it also stinks inside , it chokes you.

Accompanied with this is a whistle which only happens between 3-5k revs on boost and is louder depending on how hard you accelerate, if your stuck on boost it will whistle sll the way through, it also whistles in natural when reved too limiter between 3-4k revs.

It also misfires at limiter if you hold the accelerator down, but does not smoke at max revs only during boost between 3-5k once at 5k it wont blow smoke.

I also had oil light come on after 1000 miles, the oil level has not dropped but seems contaminated by deisel? Very thin and smells weird.

Now this is when the fan is on, the car can be turned off for 30 seconds and turned back on, which turns the fan off and it will run as normal no symptoms no misfire no smoke, runs spot on. But as soon as that fan comes back on it starts again.

The inlet maniflld was caked in carbon and i noticed sleaks of oil on pipe which comes off the turbo air intake.
The car is a 2007 fiat doblo 1.3 mjd has done 60k miles.
 
OK.

Thin smelly sump oil sounds like a failed injector that is dribbling fuel. That will also cause stinky blue smoke.

Turbo whistle could be normal or could be damaged rotor vanes. Blue smoke can also be caused by worn seals in the turbo allowing oil blow-by. An injector fault would accentuate smoke from a worn turbo.

Missfire on the rev limit is likely to be normal as the fuel flow is cut to stop you blowing it up. As said before it will go faster if you change up at lower revs. A worn injector will cause missfires.

You need to check the fuel rail pressures and see what MES has to say about codes and parameters.
 
DaveMcT said:
OK.

Thin smelly sump oil sounds like a failed injector that is dribbling fuel. That will also cause stinky blue smoke.

Turbo whistle could be normal or could be damaged rotor vanes. Blue smoke can also be caused by worn seals in the turbo allowing oil blow-by. An injector fault would accentuate smoke from a worn turbo.

Missfire on the rev limit is likely to be normal as the fuel flow is cut to stop you blowing it up. As said before it will go faster if you change up at lower revs. A worn injector will cause missfires.

You need to check the fuel rail pressures and see what MES has to say about codes and parameters.
Click to expand...

I will check the fuel rail.

You taking note that all of this only occures when the fan comes on, and stoos when it turns off, when i say stops the car drives normal. If i do thrash it, it comes back on, and it all starts again, i can use the car for a long time without thrashing it and it wont smoke or have any symptoms i have detailed and the fan wont come on, but as soon as i thrash it, and the fan comes on, i guess due too overheating all symptoms start, i can stop rhe fan by turning the car off for merly 30 seconds and the car runs normal again.
 
Also i noticed just now that it only seems too activate the fan, when i drive between 3-4k revs with pedal flat too the floor, with a quick gear change from 3rd too 4th and bsck up too 4k revs with foot flat too floor.
If i drive carefully like half acceleration then it dosnt activate the fan even at high revs.
And i can drive for a long time.
Which brings me back too the glow plug, when im opening the thorttle all the way for the entire gear and through high revs3k-4k i assume more fuel goes into the cylinder and causes a larger combustion but if a glow plug isnt heating the large amounts of fuel too the temperature required for combustion then the timing os going too be out and the cylinder isnt going too misfire.
Thats just an assumption.
As i have read alot of posts now saying glow plugs on common rail engines are used at many other times not just for starting.
If the engine is being cooled sufficiently then it wouldnt get hot enough too ignite the high levels of fuel being injected, again im assuming.
 
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Weren’t you supposed to have the glow plug issue sorted by now ?

Reading that is making me think you have something going on at the top end, something like a sticking valve.
These engines have hydraulic lifters and if your revving it hard to the red line it could be causing one to over pressure and keep a valve open.

Turn off the car, oil pressure drops, more than when the engine is running and the excess pressure in the lifter reduces and everything seems normal again, or you have a very slightly bent valve from a previous cam chain fail, when you start thrashing these engines which they really are not designed for, the valves get bouncing one could be getting stuck, not closing fully till the piston nudges it.

An open exhaust valve would mean raw diesel being mixed with exhaust gases and nasty noxious smells and smoke out of the exhaust.

There is far more going on here than just a glow plug, it’s 30’c today, there is no need for glow plugs at all in this weather. Disconnect the glow plugs and it will still start without significant effort. If it was minus 5 outside then yes I could agree with you that the glow plugs can be used at other times if the engine temp is low. Wouldn’t really apply if you have your foot mashed into the carpet at Max revs, it should be plenty warm in that situation.
 
The glow plugs aid cold starts nothing more. This time of year they probably don't even switch on.


By the sounds of your driving technique you may well have mechanically over revved the engine, forcing in a lower gear when already running at high revs can blow up the engine or at least cause valve and piston contact.

It's all so pointless because diesels accelerate faster when they are changed up well below max revs. You should try it some time.
 
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