I saw a news column today which said about FCA and Renault discussing a possible merger. What's people's thoughts on this?

Noooooooooooo!!!!

Please lets keep one interesting brand!

I don't have a problem with Fiat merging with another company, as long as Fiats still look like Fiats. I'd much prefer they merged with Renault rather than ford, Peugeot or vw!

If they do merge with Renault, then this could lead to them developing a new supermini, which if done right, could be a godsend!

With Renault, which also includes Nissan of course, could throw up some interesting possibilities. Hopefully the good ones.

Relaibility and build quality of Nissan, with the design flair of Fiat might be a good improvement. Like the new 124 sport, which I think looks better than the bloaty MX5.

Hopefully we don't get flaky Renault electrics, or their sometimes odd engineering methods.

If they just badge engineer the current Clio/Micra there might be little point, or interest.

I wonder what's in it for Renault?

I agree don't mind mind merging but as long as standards don't slip. I have not look in awhile but feel the fiat portfolio is very slim for any in 20's - mid 30s. Maybe it will be bring some new better style choices

portland_bill said:

With Renault, which also includes Nissan of course, could throw up some interesting possibilities. Hopefully the good ones.

Relaibility and build quality of Nissan, with the design flair of Fiat might be a good improvement. Like the new 124 sport, which I think looks better than the bloaty MX5.

Hopefully we don't get flaky Renault electrics, or their sometimes odd engineering methods.

If they just badge engineer the current Clio/Micra there might be little point, or interest.

I wonder what's in it for Renault?

Click to expand...

I wonder if it could gain Renault extra access to the American Market, as they'll be part of the same company as Jeep and Chrysler.

RenaultNissan could also gain access to the latest Fiat engines, as their 1.2 is also an old engine, and the latest emissions standards have ruined their 0.9 tce engine, from what I understand, so developing platforms with Fiat could see Renault using the latest Firefly engine range perhaps?

puntofan01 said:

I wonder if it could gain Renault extra access to the American Market, as they'll be part of the same company as Jeep and Chrysler.

RenaultNissan could also gain access to the latest Fiat engines, as their 1.2 is also an old engine, and the latest emissions standards have ruined their 0.9 tce engine, from what I understand, so developing platforms with Fiat could see Renault using the latest Firefly engine range perhaps?

Click to expand...

They've replaced the old 0.9 and 1.2 with brand new 1.0/1.3 engines developed with Mercedes.
But maybe theses will be replaced by the Firefly engines, if they merge with FCA.

When did that happen? Last I knew, the Twingo had 1.0 NA and 0.9 tce; and the Clio had the old 1.2 16v and 0.9 tce.

I can see this being the final nail in the coffin for Nissan production in the UK.

puntofan01 said:

When did that happen? Last I knew, the Twingo had 1.0 NA and 0.9 tce; and the Clio had the old 1.2 16v and 0.9 tce.

Click to expand...

The 1.3 tce came about a year ago I think and the 1.0 tce is new for 2019, as far as I can see.

Edit: Here's the press release for the 1.3 tce last year:
https://media.group.renault.com/glo...e-motorisation-au-service-de-la-gamme-renault

Schumi2001 said:

I can see this being the final nail in the coffin for Nissan production in the UK.

Click to expand...

Good thought. If we leave the EU, Nissan would appreciate another EU-based production plant in addition to the Renault ones.

There was an interesting conversation on the radio early this morning. I came in when it was well under way so don't know who it was, and missed the earlier part of it. I did recognize John Humphrys voice. What was being said was that probably Nissan is the strongest commercially with a good range of product and modern tech. Both Fiat and Chrysler seem vulnerable with "old" tech at Fiat which might be able to benefit from Renault's input and Chrysler's fortunes being deeply buried in SUV and Pickup trucks which make good money in prosperous times but quickly fade when people curtail their spending. The opinion by the end of the piece was that it needed Nissan to really work but that, so far, Nissan seemed only luke warm, at best, about the idea.

puntofan01 said:

I wonder if it could gain Renault extra access to the American Market, as they'll be part of the same company as Jeep and Chrysler.

Click to expand...

Full circle for Renault, they owned Jeep for a while in the 1980s, the result was the XJ Cherokee.

My 1989 "Jeep" Cherokee has the Renault 2.1 turbo diesel and is listed on the insurance papers as a "Renault Cherokee"

When free piston generator engines start to happen we will see considerable changes in the auto industry as mechanically its so very simple.

These have an electric coil between two pistons that slide back and forth without a crankshaft or valves or even any serious lubrication needs. The coil between the pistons controls the stroke and supports the weight. The power it makes (re)charges the batteries so power to the wheels is entirely electrical.

The company that hits the market first will clean up. Fiat's new Panda with up to five batteries that can be added as needed is a great candidate for such clever tech.

That is some banana of a system - I like the idea a lot. Never heard of it before so thanks for posting the link.

So we have the Free Piston Engine to generate electricity.

Now I've always criticised car manufacturers for deploying diesel engines into motor vehicles.

Diesel engines are ideally suited to CONSTANT LOAD load applications. So for constant loaded generators, ships, etc. then diesel has and will for a while to come be the "power of choice". This is not to suggest that they are clean in any other operating mode than constant load.

Now this is where a compact diesel engine to charge a battery/energy store could, should be very effective and clean with minimal OTT contraptions etc. to clean up a badly loaded diesel engine that is put into a dynamic start/stop/high load/accelerate operating mode diesel engine are at base level not suited too.

With a electric vehicle powered by a charge/battery store the both petrol and diesel engines can be optimise to generate a constant load, constant supply of energy conversion and be made to be clean and efficient.

In any system even if ultra efficient and clean then mechanical losses will always be a factor. A linear generator is going to be potentially more efficient than a rotational generator. The real magic will be the balancing of "drive" technology to "generation" technology.

As a tower (small caravan) then for electric vehicles the RANGE is the issue. Torque and pulling power is not an issue and correctly done will exceed and petrol or diesel engine.

However travel 300+ miles towing in a day, which we do every year on our trips with caravan to Italy, is going to be a real issue. Those with Motor Homes face the same issue.

Things will get better but at this early stage of "electrification" cars will be catered for first. Motor homes, cars that tow caravans or trailers will lag well behind.

And for you motor sport and track day enthusiast then be prepared for "ELECTRIC ONLY" vehicles.

Enjoy!

If you think about it - battery power for vehicles is ludicrous. You end up carrying around half a tonne of weight which is there when you've got 300 miles of range and also there when you have 3 miles of range.

Hydrogen fuel cell is still very much alive and very much where the industry thinks it will ultimately end up. All the investment in electric motors etc., transfers very nicely to fuel cell, too. The advantage being 300 mile range from 5kg of hydrogen and a sub 5 minute fill time.

Motorhomes could never go battery - the weight of battery pack needed to take a motorhome 300-500 miles would prohibitively impact the vehicle weight.

Same applies for haulage.

(And we also need to consider local grid capacity - imagine the chaos at Exeter services on a bank holiday Friday evening where everyone on the M5 is desperate to charge their batteries! - even if you could install enough charge points, you'd have massive charge throttling and load balancing issues adding hours to journey times)

All the merger talk is of FCA Needing battery tech.

Certainly true in the shorter term.

But FCA running hydrogen fleets for almost a decade
would put them ahead come 'phase 2'

I fully agree the battery is just a stepping stone.. charging network will NEVER be good enough.

Whereas in essence Hydrogen is no worse than LPG 5 mins at a 'filling station'

And you are good for a few more hours

Lada got a mention..

Who owns those rights?

I think I heard or read somewhere recently that hydrogen production was quite energy hungry, so overall is very inefficient for propulsion. Unless it can be produced using solar or wind energy.

Having solar panels on your roof, and a hydrogen producing plant in the garage might be a way to go, but perhaps only if you live near the fire station.