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Old 1 Week Ago   #31
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Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
The Honda plant in Swindon has a hydrogen filling station. I've no idea how many hydrogen cars might exist in the Swindon area, but when the plant closes in 18 months time any hydrogen cars in the area will probably becoome scrap.
Only a short future then?
Castrol have fuelled a hydrogen taxi fleet for years

Local BBC tv news have covered it many times.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #32
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Hydrogen has poor energy density compared to petroleum fuels so needs big tanks that are better suited to big vehicles.

The problem is poor energy transfer. Electrolytic water cracking has considerable losses and heat engines will all struggle to beat 40% efficiency. More like 25% for spark ignition.

Lithium batteries have a 99% efficiency on charge and discharge losses at normal rates are very low. Rapid discharge (as in "ludicrous mode") does drop the charge available by a lot more than the actual power taken.

On that basis what is the point of hydrogen as a fuel? OK, it can be more quickly filled but the high end to end losses make it far from the greenest option.

The high neutron flux inside a nuke reactor will happily crack water (ask the Fukushima staff) but good luck with the safety and regulatory issues!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #33
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

The point is convenience and not having to install hundreds of charging points at the pinch locations on our road networks.

As a compact country, EV makes more sense here than it does worldwide, but still comes with massive capacity issues which are difficult to solve.

H2 can be stored in tanks so the plant runs continually until all capacity is filled. Meaning you require less peak capacity per site... to smooth this with BEV you need to install battery packs to charge batteries... hardly a great use of rare resources.

And donít forget the elephant in the room. Mining for rare earth metals to make batteries for BEVs is really bad for the countries with those resources. Massive environmental impact, slave and child labour, this will be this stick used to tax BEV in the future.

Once BEV loses the tax benefits, demand collapses because theyíre actually really inconvenient things at the time where convenience is vital.

The future is a blend. BEV for cities and shorter distances backed up by H2 for long distance travel and haulage / mass transport.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #34
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Castrol have fuelled a hydrogen taxi fleet for years

Local BBC tv news have covered it many times.
Nothing coming up on Google!

An article in the Swindon Advertiser dated Nov 2017 says only a handful of cars use the Swindon hydrogen facility each year. Facility has been there since 2011, so not caught on there yet.
Apparently solar powered, so potentially a great idea, but not working. It's future will be uncertain when Honda closes.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #35
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post

The high neutron flux inside a nuke reactor will happily crack water (ask the Fukushima staff) but good luck with the safety and regulatory issues!

The hydrogen explosions at Fukushima where caused by a relation between the meeting down core of the, of which the fuel rods were coated in zirconium alloy and steam, so what youíre saying is itís easy to make plenty of hydrogen as long as we melt a few reactor cores..... youíll need more than luck to get that one past the regulators, not to mention the millions of gallons of highly radioactive water that where a left over from that disaster....

Iím beginning to think you donít get science
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Old 1 Week Ago   #36
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Oh here we go. Don't like what someone says so lets make it personal.

Fukushima was indeed killed by hydrogen created by the steam/zirconium catalyst reaction, but that's a separate issue from normal operation neutron radiolysis.

All light water reactors have to deal with hydrogen created by water impacted by neutrons in the core. Fukushima had nothing like enough recombining capacity to cope with a core meltdown and steam/zirconium catalyst reactions.

It would be technically possible to use a high neutron flux to crack water. Cost, practicality, safety, etc. would have to be dealt with. Highly unlikely to be a practical option.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #37
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Oh here we go. Don't like what someone says so lets make it personal.

Fukushima was indeed killed by hydrogen created by the steam/zirconium catalyst reaction, but that's a separate issue from normal operation neutron radiolysis.

All light water reactors have to deal with hydrogen created by water impacted by neutrons in the core. Fukushima had nothing like enough recombining capacity to cope with a core meltdown and steam/zirconium catalyst reactions.

It would be technically possible to use a high neutron flux to crack water. Cost, practicality, safety, etc. would have to be dealt with. Highly unlikely to be a practical option.
Nothing personal, I don’t get what the obsession with nuclear energy is and why you keep bringing it up, and yes if you buy into the hype I can see why you think it’s the answer to everything, but is is far more complex than that.

If you’re then going to say it would never be a practical option then why even bring it up?

Making hydrogen using heat from a nuclear reactor is technically possible, but it produces a lot of by products as well which cause corrosion and damage, like hydrogen peroxide, it’s not feasible so why even bring it up?

Why talk about nuclear a power on a thread about Peugeot and fiat merging.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #38
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Why talk about nuclear a power on a thread about Peugeot and fiat merging.
This is the Renault/Fiat thread Andy apparently FCA is putting it about a bit!

Having said that read a story on the BBC that the deal is off after Renault didn't reach a decision.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #39
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post
This is the Renault/Fiat thread Andy apparently FCA is putting it about a bit!

Having said that read a story on the BBC that the deal is off after Renault didn't reach a decision.
My mistake but fiat have been putting it about, it wasnít that long ago VW were rumoured to be looking at buying fiat and other such mergers.

The way things are going Iíd put money on a Chinese company taking it over, someone like geely.

Itís no surprise the deal has already fallen through on this.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #40
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

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Old 1 Week Ago   #41
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

I must admit, Geely taking over Fiat might not be a bad thing: when they took over Volvo, they gave them the brave investment to develop a brand new range of engines and platforms. If they took over Fiat, they could do the same thing. Given the vast number of brands involved, the potential rewards of investment could be very lucrative.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #42
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
I must admit, Geely taking over Fiat might not be a bad thing: when they took over Volvo, they gave them the brave investment to develop a brand new range of engines and platforms. If they took over Fiat, they could do the same thing. Given the vast number of brands involved, the potential rewards of investment could be very lucrative.
Geely already tried to buy fiat last year, I was using them as an example.

I think the problem is fiat know they need to team up to carry on but donít want to give anything up in the process.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #43
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

What did Geely want them to give up? And I thought the Renault merger failure was due to the French government sticking their snouts in?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #44
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Re: Possible FCA merger...govern

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
What did Geely want them to give up?
Control of the company that the Agnelli family wonít give up, the offer from geely was too low for them so they wanted to keep all the valuable brands like Maserati and Alfa Romeo, which geely rejected so they went their separate ways

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
And I thought the Renault merger failure was due to the French government sticking their snouts in?
I imagine a similar thing happened with Renault, Fiat didnít like the offer on the table and decided to try and keep all the goodies, as the French government are very large share owners in Renault they had a right to to veto any deals and so they where not happy with what fiat where asking.

Several times now fiat have looked for buyers and to merge but failed. I think what the Aganellis are trying to do is offload fiat but keep everything else.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #45
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Re: Possible FCA merger...

Fair enough. Someone needs to save Fiat, my future motoring happiness depends on it, lol!
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